Question Time in Blackpool, 1 March 2018. Photo: BBC1 Question Time
Who should decide on fracking came under the spotlight on BBC Question Time from Blackpool last night.
The Conservative panellist, Ken Clarke, said the Government should decide because he believed national interest outweighed local opinion.
The former UKIP leader, Nigel Farage, while supporting fracking, said local people could be given the say through a local referendum.
Labour’s Owen Smith, the Shadow Northern Ireland Spokesperson, said the Government had overblown the benefits of fracking and lied about giving local views priority. This wouldn’t happen under Labour, he said.
Audience member who asked the question about fracking decisions, Question Time, 1 March 2018
The politicians were responding to an audience question:
“Is it fair that on two occasions planning permission to frack this area was not approved by the council and the government overruled us?”
The Communities Secretary, Sajid Javid, granted planning permission for Cuadrilla’s fracking scheme at Preston New Road, near Blackpool. He also said he was minded to approve a similar proposal at Roseacre Wood. Both applications had been refused by Lancashire County Council.
Last night’s Question Time also heard from Michelle Dewberry, winner of The Apprentice in 2016, and now a TV presenter and businesswoman. She said the fracking industry had failed to win over people. Another panellist, Blue Peter and Winter Olympics presenter Radzi Chinyanganya, called for a move away from fossil fuels to renewable energy.
The issue of who should decide on fracking plans is now being investigated by a parliamentary select committee.
One option would be to regard fracking as nationally-significant infrastructure, where decisions are automatically made by ministers.
Lancashire County Council said no to national decision-making last week. Fylde, the district council covering Cuadrilla’s sites, is being recommended by officers to say there is “merit” in taking fracking decisions out of local control. (DrillOrDrop report)
One member of the largely anti-fracking Question Time audience contrasted how the will of the people was being used to support Brexit but not local fracking decisions.
Another said a shale gas industry would generate “billions of pounds” of tax revenue and “millions for the local economy”.
He said:
“Everyone in this room is going to go home tonight and put their gas central heating on. A wind turbine is not going to heat your house. It was the Labour Party in 2008 that actually got the ball rolling on shale gas and issued the exploratory drilling licences.
“This is under British regulations and British gas engineers, the best in the world. We will do it right.”
The final comment from the audience was:
“I wonder if the decision would have been overturned in the same way if the fracking was taking place south of Watford.”
Who said what about who decides?
Michelle Dewberry
“I think fracking, for whatever reason, is an industry that has completely failed to win over and convince people of their arguments.
“I think people are concerned about safety. People don’t want earthquakes and big firms denying all knowledge and then admitting down the line that maybe it is.
“It is a real safety concern and until those safety concerns are properly addressed and people understand what’s going on, until that point is reached, we’ve got a problem. I don’t understand what it’s going to take, because it hasn’t yet happened that that industry has managed to get people bought into what they’re doing and the benefits of it and address their real safety concerns.”
Asked if fracking would happen, she said:
“I think it is something that is not still understood enough to the degree where we can make a proper informed decision about it and I don’t quite understand why it is a very unpopular industry, and I understand people’s concerns here, if it was on my back garden I’d have concerns about it as well. But I just think that the industry needs to work closely with government regulations and residents to properly communicate what it is doing and to reassure those safety concerns if it wants to get the go ahead.”
Nigel Farage
Nigel Farage, former UKIP leader, on Question Time, 1 March 2018. Photo: BBC1 Question Time
“It’s right of Government to have concerns. Michelle’s point about a very effective lobby against fracking – and they’ve been very good at it – they’ve been very good at putting the fear of God into people.
“Look, no form of the extractive industry doesn’t bring some degree of risk with it, whether it is coal mining or whatever it may be.
“We have been fracking since the 1950s. America has done more of it than we’ve done but even we’ve done a bit of fracking in this country.
“What you have got in this part of England is the most phenomenal reserve of natural gas.
“Exploited carefully and sensibly, it would not leave great scars on the landscape like coal mining did in many areas and it would revolutionise the economy of the northwest of England by providing tens of thousands of well-paid jobs.”
To shouts from the audience, he said:
“We must be mad, we must be mad, to look a gift-horse in the mouth.”
The audience booed when he said:
“It’s unpopular because people don’t like things in their back yard obviously and because the campaign has been effective against it.
Ken Clarke
Ken Clarke, former Conservative Chancellor and Home Secretary, on Question Time, 1 March 2018. Photo: BBC1 Question Time
“Of course we have a good local planning system but in big things of national importance the Government must have a role particularly nowadays.”
He said if Isambard Kingdom Brunel were building a railway from London to Bristol, he would have been advised not to go through the planning system. Mr Clarke likened fracking to building new roads, railways and airport runways. He said:
“You take account of local opinion.”
David Dimbleby: “and then ignore it?”
“You don’t ignore it but the national interest outweighs that and if the local opinion is just rejecting advice of the national geological survey, the scientific world, about whether there are risks involved in fracking or not, I think a Government is entitled to say in the national interest I think we’re going ahead.”
Mr Clark said:
“We have had decades of fracking and all this campaigning about all the dreadful things that are supposed to happen, your water will be poisoned, you’ll have earthquakes…”
David Dimbleby: “They did have earthquakes
Mr Clark said the Blackpool event was “not detectable by a human being on the surface. It was a low level tremor.”
Several people in the audience said “I felt it”.
At least nine people put up their hands when asked if they had felt the earthquake connected to fracking at Cuadrilla’s in 2011.
Radzi Chinyanganya
“We talk about well blow outs, we talk about its carbon intensity, we talk about it’s [being] water intensive but the very big issue is that if we’re serious about protecting this blue marvel that we’re on we need to move away from fossil fuels and really embrace renewable energy. In this area, there’s a lot of wind, why don’t we use it?”
Owen Smith
Owen Smith, Labour’s Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary, on Question Time, 1 March 2018. Photo: BBC1 Question Time
“The benefits of fracking are totally overblown. The volume of jobs will be tiny, the reserves that we have are much less than America or France or some of the other places where they have shale gas to frack. In some of those places, like France, they have decided not go after it.
“Why did we have the Tories overruling local people? It was because they decided round the time of them getting elected in 2010 that it was a good idea for them to try to mimic the States. They could sell to people, as part of their election platform, that they were going to unveil this great new industrial revolution. It was going to produce jobs and cheap, free energy practically in this country. All a load of rubbish.
“The other thing they lied to people about was their suggestion that local people and local decisions will be given primacy. That clearly hasn’t happened here. It should have happened and if it had happened we would not have the fracking in Blackpool. It wouldn’t happen under a Labour Government.”
Question Time can be viewed for 11 months on the BBC IPlayer
What do you think about the answers of the Question Time panel? Please post a comment with your views.
Categories: Politics
DRILL OR DROP? 
Jeremy Quin MP Horsham said they aren’t fracking in the South. Ken Clarke heard to mumble “Surrey Hills”, which is it to be? Tory confusion or lies.
If fracking has been so exaggerated why is America about to be come the biggest supplier of oil and gas in the world.Frack away as quickly as possible.
They are planning to frack and acidise in various locations across Surrey and Sussex including Horse Hill, Leith Hill, Brockham, Lidsey and Broadford Bridge.
Because the USA has effectively killed of it’s Environmental Agency powers (accelerated by Trumps appointment of Pruitt) and has a senate dominated by those with Oil and Gas interests. The costs and the environmental damage is being, and will be, confronted later. For 2017, coastal, wildfire and flooding damages, all exacerbated by global warming has costs to the tune of 300 billion dollars (and counting).
[typo corrected at poster’s request]
We don’t buy gas from Russia. Why do people keep rolling out this fallacy? Do they think we will believe the lie if its repeated often enough. We get a large amount of our gas from Norway and The Netherlands. Why didn’t you mention that?
Also, renewable energy such as wind can be used to power homes. Indeed 29% of the electricity generation last year was from renewables. Not everyone has a gas powered boiler!
I think the consensus is that Europe gets a LOT of gas from Russia and in fact wants to start getting even more. We are connected to the European pipelines so yes Russian gas will indirectly enter the UK.
Russian gas through Belgium interconnect EU grid, do your homework. All European Countries play down the gas supply from Russia. Maybe you’ll see a bit more mainstream news about this in the next few days. Russia choking Ukraine and affecting EU grid. France got an LNG cargo from Yamal only the other week… Remember Belgium does not produce any gas they are merely a conduit…
Please be under no illusion WE GET GAS FROM RUSSIA!!!! It is not a lie.
Russia delivering more gas to Britain to relieve cold-weather shortage
https://www.rt.com/business/420464-russia-lng-tanker-britain/
Is your gas boiler on tonight?
For information:
Top UK exports include:
engineering products
pharmaceuticals
chemicals
consumer goods
education
‘The Russian petroleum industry has been affected by the EU and US sanctions imposed after March 2014, However, the sanctions only apply to equipment and services suitable for use in:
– oil exploration or production in waters deeper than 150m in the offshore area north of the Arctic Circle
– shale fracking’
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exporting-to-russia/doing-business-in-russia-russia-trade-and-export-guide
Radzi Chinyanganya was the only person on the panel to say anything remotely sensible. Most of the comments (not questions) from the panel and audience alike, were made by self serving, deluded, misinformed, if informed at all bullyboys.
Glad that Radzi raised climate change in his answer.
An important reason why our present central government should not be the body make planning decisions involving fossil fuels and climate change is that it is unfit to do so for many reasons (which could fill a book!) such as:
1. Tory Party receives donations from fossil fuel interests.
2. Its policies and actions are incompatible with UK’s requirements to comply with the temperature goals of the Paris Agreement, as shown by evidence-based studies by climate scientists, and CCC the Commission on Climate Change has stated (unfortunately over-politely) that the Uk gov isn’t even complying with the 2008 climate act requirements.
This leaflet shows ‘Why the UK must NOT exploit shale gas’ “Here I focus on the climate reason (of the many reasons)”
Click to access NOtoShaleGas-on1sheet.pdf
I totally agree Henry
Well, Councillor, I think you have just proven why this decision needs to be taken out of Councillors hands. Didn’t really need QT.
You are unaware of a cargo of Russian gas recently shipped to the UK? (It was actually transhipped later to USA because they had an urgent need-because of cold weather.)
You are also unaware of USA gas coming from their fracking into UK? (I am not talking INEOS.)
Never mind. All our gas will have been fracked and used long before there is a Labour Government, so really not an issue for you chaps.
Beside the point Martin. Kisheny misleads by not mentioning the (small) proportions of gas from those sources. And do you too think that electricity cannot be used for heating? (Re his statement about wind turbines … nonsense).
Martin the Yamal shipment was reloaded in the UK to get around the US embargo on Russian gas. Just market jiggery pokery I am afraid and never intended for UK distribution but it made great press for the pro frackers and great sport for the Russians. This kind of deal is precisely why Grain developed a reloading facility, the question is will fracking in the UK prevent this happening in the future? That is highly doubtful.
The Yamal shipment was initially on its way to China before its stop at the Isle of Grain. Politically it would have looked terrible if we had received it but we have hardly any storage in the U.K and would have used it if needs must. Let’s see what happens this week when Russia chokes Ukraine and affects EU grid supply. Looking at wind speed forcasts for the coming week looks like wind turbines and solar panels will be down the pub. Coal and Nuclear have been nearly at full tilt all week so as to avoid using gas, very pricey at the moment should be called Bitgas. Let’s look ahead on our current strategy, coal power stations shut down and massive subsidies for wind stopped (this year). Out of the EU to boot. Hmmm, what if that situation happened over the last few days? Then the coming week when the wind drops. Better get used to kids asking when the wind is going to blow so we can put the lights on, heating on and watch telly again every few hours, it’ll drive us mad…
Kisheny. You have got to try to get a grip on the issue of climate change. That is where your thinking has gone wrong.
Please look at the pace of warming in the Arctic and get an understanding of the impact this is having upon weather patterns in the northern hemisphere. Prof Stephen Hawking recently warned of our extinction if we don’t get out of fossil fuels fast. At the ‘One Planet’ conference in December President Macron warned there would be “billions of victims”. Theresa May sat there and heard him say it.
Following the last hurricane season the Foreign Office minister of the Bahamas raised at the September 2017 General Assembly meeting the prospect of the evacuation of the entire Caribbean. How many climate refugees are you willing to accept into the UK? Are you willing to take all 4 million Commonwealth citizens who currently live there?
Until you understand what climate change is going to do to your own children you won’t understand why the transition to the renewable technologies has to be damn fast. There is no time to waste on Fracking. We need every single penny that is available to go into the renewables.
On top of that everyone who supports the extraction of fossil fuels needs to gather the younger members of their families around them and try to explain to them what the Bank Of England referred to in its June 2017 report on the financial risks associated with climate change. The Bank of England raised with investors the prospects that the so called “climate feedbacks” might emerge so fast that they overwhelm us and we have to immediately stop burning fossil fuels. The Bank’s warning was that all those £billions you investors think you are sitting on – well they could be rendered unburnable and worthless over night. What you need to ask of the youngest members of your families is if they want you to run that risk – that because of your lobbying, we don’t get out of fossil fuels fast enough, and they have to suffer the runaway greenhouse effect.
Never forget that the anti-Fracking campaigners are working damn hard; risking life, limb and liberty to save the lives of the children of those who work in and support the fossil fuel industries.
Tomorrow the U.K will receive a massive LNG consignment from Yamal Russia… Let’s hope everything goes O.K as later in the week the wind is due to drop and we really would be in trouble without that gas… Thank God for the Russians eh… U.K fracking would mean we would never have to rely on Putin ever again…
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201803041062206648-gas-deliveries-uk-analysis/
http://www.dw.com/en/syria-us-accuses-russia-of-killing-civilians-in-eastern-ghouta/a-42824041
We import all sorts of things. Wheat from Russia and the USA. So what about food self sufficiency. Clothes from sweat shops in Bangladesh and the Far East. Gas from…the North Sea (UK waters, some of which we actually export), that unstable regime in Norway, shale gas for plastics goes to …Gramgemouth in INEOS. Absolutely no self interest in INEOS getting its hands on “home grown shale gas”. No, communities don’t want the traffic and air pollution of fracking damaging their health. There has been no evacuation plan and very late communication from Third Energy around odour releases to the community. The industry don’t care one iota about the welfare of the community, only profits. We will oppose them until they go away for good.
Yes, PhilipP, electricity can be used to heat. How much of that electricity came from gas and coal generation yesterday? Do you really think others are not aware of that who visit DOD, or is it that you prefer to work on the basis that they aren’t because the debate gets a little more difficult otherwise?
How much do solar panels produce when they are covered with 20 centimetres of snow?
Oh, a huge battery. Hmm. What about the windfall tax about to be imposed by DRC? They need extra income to pay for treatment of the cancers caused to the young children working in achieving that, to make things stack up.
Actually Ian, we produce more wheat than we use in normal years and are a net exporter. That is, until some bright spark decided it would be better to convert that human food into biodiesel, because it would save the planet! I think one of the largest UK plants was recently put on gardening leave as the old chestnut of demand/supply and price caught up.
For information:
Last night over 27% of our electricity was powered by wind; generally storms produce wind. Sadly 16% was powered by gas, and yet they cry shortage. If we had more wind power, it would generate the electricity we need as a mix and divert the gas to heating homes until we can transition back to clean electric heating.
And solar, although included in the grid watch figures is only an estimate from Sheffield University from solar farm production. Small scale wind and solar generation are interestingly not included, only the commercially generated renewables. As more and more panels and small wind generators come on line, the demand for commercially produced energy drops…something that worries the pants off the Big Six.
Sherwulf
There was a shortage, so gas was prioritised for domestic use, as industrial users were asked to cut back. Hence the drop in gas fired output.
The reasons for the shortage was ( outwith the demand due to cold weather ) supply problems in Norway and the Netherlands plus an issue at Bacton.
Coal did and continues to fill a large gap, even with good output from wind turbines. Coal was, and is now producing around 21% of the power, about the same as wind.
So, we need to double our wind turbine numbers to equal the loss of coal on a windy night in winter.
Were it not windy, we would have been in more trouble.
It looks as if the supply problems have eased, so supply can meet demand. A bit more storage capacity would help.
I do not disagree that more wind power is good, plus all the supporting technologies to store it and or convert it to hydrogen, but think it will take a while yet to fill the gap that will be left by coal.
Plus I support onshore wind, wherever it blows the most, wherever that may be, and development of the grid to transport all that solar power to where people want and are prepared to pay for it.
hewes, am sure you would agree that when a storm comes and we get cold, so the wind blows fiercely. Enough wind turbines and we would not have needed both coal and gas last night, simple logic. In addition, the fossil fuels we burned last night are finite and irreplaceable. The wind is infinite; better value for money all round, and no rip off price hikes following scaremongering comments like ‘we are out of gas’.
If you look at the governments annual reports you will see we buy in from ‘other’ sources every winter, and sell back in the summer. With wind we would not have to buy in anything; with our excellent wind speeds we may even export wind generated power> Top that with a programme of independent solar generation from the homes of the consumers and we are nearly there. The gas can be stretched out and only used when needed in an emergency, if eventually, at all – electric cars smart charged and doubling as a house battery.
What if the wind didn’t blow like last night? Or do you wish the wind will blow like that every day so you can gave your windy dream.
Hydrogen fuel from water using renewables??? That would make water resources even more scarce. The anti frackers have been arguing frackinf will put strain and threat on water supply. And yet this hydrogen make water supply at risk even more scarce. Using salt water will generate tonnes of salt concentrated wastes and radioactive materials.
People dont actually realised it. Fossil fuel like nat gas is solar battery storage renewables rolled into one. Sunlight are trap and stored in hydrogen carbon bonds of organic materials of plant planktons and organism which used sunlight to sucked in and lock in CO2. The earth inner heat just cook it into a liquid that can be used as fuel that is all and it takes a long time to cook. And ee burn it release CO2 that can be recycled to regenerate organic materials via sun power. So that sun power renewables for you. It just that we are using too much and too fast. And it take a long time to cook.
TW, you missed the whole point of the post; go back and read it again. You would be wise to check out gridwatch, not just daily but over the week, month/year.
I’m glad you’ve pointed out the finite source of fossil fuel. Unfortunately your logic does not pan out. You need to look again at the reasons for global warming and the planets ability to balance without us, and I mean without us.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/national-grid-latest-gas-deficit-warning-withdrawn-weather-extreme-snow-cold-temperature-a8235906.html
Jono
Yes, as above and reported in the press, it was a lack of supply due to various problems, and that has eased. I note that the Indie says we could run out of gas, but we only have less, rather than none.
Mind you, those unfortunate enough to use LPG in the village are running low as there is a shortage of that, they are getting short deliveries, and they may run out.
Really crembrule??!!
Tosh. If that was all “planned” can someone send me the crystal ball that predicted that US price spike so accurately? If you can get it to me before tomorrows Lottery I would be grateful.
There is such a thing as the “common sense” test.
Almost the best for the week, but not quite as good as 8.5% decline in GDP modelled for Brexit, when our trade with EU represents little more than 12% GDP. But there’s always next week.
Are you sure Martin? Timeline of shipment unloading and it’s spot purchase by Energie indicates it was not destined for UK usage. And Mr National Grid clearly states it never entered the UK network. Why wouldn’t the original tanker just go to the States if that’s where demand was?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1EY2HY