Politics

Fracking moratorium to be lifted – reaction

Photo: DrillOrDrop

DrillOrDrop is compiling reaction to the government’s announcement that it will lift the moratorium on fracking in England.

We’ll update this with new comments as we get them.


Claire Stephenson, Frack Free Lancashire

“We’re in the midst of a climate crisis. There can be no mitigation of this fact, and to allow fracking to restart is both dangerous and regressive.

“The shocking lack of details in this decision will need to be considered within a legal context. There has been a desktop review done by the British Geological Survey, in respect of the safety aspect of fracking and the unmitigable earthquakes that Cuadrilla previously caused. Where is this report? What fresh science is there to support this reckless reneging on the moratorium?

“Communities do not support fracking. We have been here before. This is not a new experience for residents in Lancashire and beyond. We’ve dealt with this nightmare for over 10 years now. 

“Communities want renewable energy sources. 100 constituencies of Conservative voters surveyed in a poll this week, support wind and solar farms for energy production. 76% of people surveyed supported offshore wind, 81% supported solar and 74% people were in favour of onshore wind. Fracking had just 34% support of Conservative voters, who preferred onshore wind to fracking by a majority of 2 to 1.

“As we’ve previously stated, after 10+ years of fracking attempts in Lancashire, there has been absolutely no progress other than communities being torn apart, mass uncontrollable methane emissions, structural damage from earthquakes and most notable of all: zero commercial gas produced.

“We stand strongly opposed to fracking anywhere and will fiercely challenge any attempt to restart this dirty technology.”


Susan Holliday, Preston New Road Action Group

“It is astounding that the government have decided to lift the moratorium on fracking as they have continually said that they would only do so if the science proved that it could be done safely. As far as we are aware nothing has changed since the earth tremors of 2019. What has happened to the the report that the BGS were commissioned to produce?

“Once again communities are going to have the cloud of fracking hanging over them. As a community the people round PNR have consistently demonstrated that they don’t want fracking”


Francis Egan, Cuadrilla Resources

“I am very pleased that the new Government has acted quickly to lift the moratorium.  This is an entirely sensible decision and recognises that maximizing the UK’s domestic energy supply is vital if we are going to overcome the ongoing energy crisis and reduce the risk of it recurring in the future.

“The last few months have highlighted the risks associated with ever increasing reliance on expensive, uncertain, and higher emission gas imports. Without the strong measures set out today, the UK was set to import over two thirds of its gas by the end of the decade, exposing the British public and businesses to further risk of supply shortage and price hikes down the line.

“Any rational analysis of UK energy supply, including those put forward by the Climate Change Committee, recognise that our transition to Net Zero will require the continued use of gas until at least 2050. Today’s announcement sets the foundation for us to move towards gas self-sufficiency, and not be reliant on the whims of dictators, or the vagaries of international supply lines and prices.

“A thriving shale gas industry will drive job creation across the North of England, generate much needed tax revenues for central and local government, and benefit local communities financially.

“The Government has made the right call, and we look forward to working with them to ensure this industry can start generating results as soon as possible. The prize if we get this right will be an energy strategy fit for the 21st century, that provides security of supply, economic prosperity, and vital support to the British public. 

“We look forward to getting started.”

Statement

Mark Abbott, managing director, Egdon Resources plc

“The lifting of the moratorium is a logical and pragmatic response to the new geopolitical reality and the new Government should be congratulated on the speed and foresight of its action.  In contrast to a growing reliance on imports, the development of indigenous shale gas could have a positive impact on energy security, gas prices and the UK’s balance of payments, whilst delivering tax revenues, business rates, community benefits and thousands of well paid, skilled jobs. Importantly shale-gas can also play its part in delivering the goals of Net Zero and the Energy Security Strategy.

“With Egdon’s material shale-gas position, we now look forward to working positively with Government and local communities to deliver this nationally important resource in a timely fashion.”

Statement

Frack Free United

“We are clear that any decision to renege on the fracking moratorium is based on political dogma. The moratorium which has been removed had required evidence for it to be lifted but there is no sign that the evidence has changed. Instead, a new government has made a knee-jerk decision and appears happy for communities across the UK to take the risks that fracking the complex UK geology poses. 

“FFU believe this will lead to more CO2 emissions and speed up global warming, without having any effect at all on the price we pay for our energy. It does not matter how much gas the UK yields: producers operate in a world market and sell their oil and gas at the market price. 

“Fracking will not be a quick supply fix. It will be several years before any production is possible, despite the Prime Minister’s fanciful ‘six months until gas flow’ soundbite today in Parliament.

“We know that many communities across the UK will not understand the reasons for this announcement and will see it as a decision against all the evidence about the risks and harms fracking will bring to them. We do not believe there will be any genuine democratic power in respect of making any of the decisions relating to fracking. Communities will remember this U-turn at the ballot box across the UK, particularly in areas where there are marginal seats.

“Finally, Frack Free United are aware of the generational impacts on our children and grandchildren. Global warming is a scientific fact and requires urgent action to mitigate it. By increasing our use and dependence on fossil fuels, the future looks unsustainable.”


Frack Free Ryedale

“Everyone is worried about high energy prices and the terrible situation with the war in Ukraine. We are all affected by this.

“But repeatedly the government has been told by independent energy experts that fracking is not the solution. Not only is the industry unproven but any meaningful production is years away.

“Not only that, but the gas belongs to the companies that extract it and would be sold at market price. In fact earlier this year the then Business Secretary, Mr Kwarteng, stated that fracking would not lower prices, production of any useful quantity of gas was a decade away and that fracking was not the solution to the energy crisis.

“The lifting of the fracking moratorium is a political decision, not a sensible decision. The quickest way to lower bills is to reduce our dependency on gas by better insulating homes and developing more renewables. Renewables are now nine times cheaper than expensive gas.

“We remain opposed to fracking for all these reasons and because of its unacceptable impacts on the environment, climate change, the countryside and communities. “

Statement

IGas Energy

“IGas welcomes the Government’s statement today on the lifting of the effective moratorium on hydraulic fracturing in England and the review of energy regulation.

“We have always believed the science, as well as the need for increased domestic production of gas, supports a lifting of the moratorium. 

“The data that we have collected in the Gainsborough Trough over the past five years shows that we have a world class shale gas resource which is now, given the energy crisis, a strategic national asset. 

“The development of IGas’ shale gas assets has the potential to provide secure and affordable energy for the UK in the near term, helping to decouple the UK from volatile and competitive international gas markets.  Aside from the clear benefits in job creation and balance of payments through producing indigenous natural gas, we will support local communities with a comprehensive benefit package. 

“The accelerated development of this strategic natural resource, which we believe is imperative in helping with the ongoing energy and cost-of-living crisis, can only be achieved through a streamlined regulatory process, something the Government has committed to today.  To this end, we look forward to working constructively with the new administration.”

Statement

Mark Menzies, Conservative MP for Fylde

“Twice fracking has taken place here and twice it has resulted in a national moratorium. That is no coincidence. The last seismic event here was 250 times the industry-agreed safe limit, releasing 3,000 times more energy.

“It has been demonstrated without doubt the geology here is not suitable and I have made clear to the prime minister exploration should not resume locally. If she is serious about fracking only going ahead with local consent she will listen carefully to what I have to say.”

Guardian

Michael Rosen, poet


Tom Fyans, director of campaigns and policy, CPRE

“The brutal reality of fracking is that to get any meaningful amount of gas from the ground would require wholesale devastation of the countryside.

“The numbers of horrifying. Previous research has shown we’d need 6,100 fracking sites – that’s one new site a day for 15 years – to replace half the gas we currently import. That would require approximately 3,500 hectares of land, or around 4,900 football pitches.

“That’s why, leaving aside any environmental concerns, fracking is the least popular and least effective way of enhancing energy security. The reason it was banned is because people wanted it banned.

“Allowing fracking in the two southern ‘jurassic’ areas, in particular, would be likely to have major visual and polluting impacts on some of our most valuable countryside and coastline, particularly the Jurassic Coast and the South Downs National Park. Similar damage in the northern area would directly impact the Peak District National Park.

“Shale gas deposits in the UK are located under major population centres. Huge swathes of the northwest and Yorkshire and large south coast resorts and ports, primarily in Sussex, Surrey, Hampshire and Dorset, would be directly in the firing line.”

Statement

Tessa Khan, director of Uplift, part of the Warm this Winter coalition

“Whilst there is no doubt that many across the UK will feel relief at the energy prize freeze, the plan is an utterly wasted opportunity to fix the UK’s broken energy system. This is just an enormous sticking plaster.

It feels like the new PM has spent the whole summer listening the whispering of oil and gas companies. This energy bill bailout is in fact a huge oil and gas subsidy. They are being allowed to keep all their profits on the vain promise that they will invest in UK future energy.

First, the UK has already burned most of its gas. Most of what’s left is oil, which we export. No amount of ideologically-driven, political will can change the geology of the North Sea. Truss can issue as many new drilling licenses as she likes, but the likelihood of it leading to new gas production is slim.

As for relying on oil and gas companies to invest in renewables, nearly three quarters of operators invest nothing right now and the majors, only a tiny fraction of their profits.

This energy bill bailout buys us time, but we cannot afford to waste it doing more of the same. If we don’t fix the UK’s leaky homes and cut our dependence on gas with a massive acceleration of cheap renewables, we will end up in the exact same place for years to come.”

Statement

Caroline Lucas, Green Party MP for Brighton Pavilion:

“A massive kick in the teeth for vast majority of communities who don’t want #fracking, a disaster for #climate policy, & a measure that will make absolutely zero difference to the cost of energy bills.  Performative politics at its worst

“And huge U-turn for new Chancellor Kwarteng who, 6 months ago, said “those who call for return (of fracking) misunderstand the situation: no amount of shale gas from 100s of wells across England would be enough to lower European price any time soon”. He was right then, wrong now.”

Twitter

Charles McAllister, policy director, UK Onshore Oil & Gas

“UKOOG welcomes the decision to lift the moratorium on hydraulic fracturing in England, given the new geopolitical realities. Lifting the moratorium demonstrates sensible foresight from the new Government and gives our members the chance to progress in developing natural gas from the abundant Bowland-Hodder shale formation under the North of England.

The development of UK shale gas offers community benefits, tax revenue, tens of thousands of well-paid and skilled jobs, a real chance to level up the UK and energy security. Imports offer none of these benefits.

UK shale gas production can also be instrumental in delivering the goals of Net Zero and the Energy Security Strategy.

We look forward to working constructively with Government to deliver timely shale gas production in the national interest, as well as working closely with local communities to ensure they share in the benefits of domestic shale gas development”

Statement

James Murray, editor Business Green

“Leaving aside environmental implications, reviving fracking makes little political sense. There are hugely popular options available and yet the govt is choosing to prioritise and promote what is literally the least popular and least effective way to enhance energy security.

“You could perhaps position fracking as a minor part of a wider package based on the things polling shows the public likes – energy efficiency improvements, onshore renewables, price support, even N Sea development.

“But instead they’ve gone with lifting the ban on the thing people want to be banned. It’s picking a massive fight right from the off and guaranteeing the headlines are dominated by protests.

“And all for negligible amounts of gas that won’t come online for years and won’t make any difference to prices and little difference to security.

“As David Cameron and Theresa May found these protests won’t just be from environmental activists, who they never cared about, but people in the communities affected.

“The people who will be most worried this morning, apart from those communities, are ‘red’ and ‘blue’ wall Tory MPs. The net zero transition should ultimately leave new fossil fuel assets stranded.”

Tweeting in personal capacity

Dr Doug Parr, policy director at Greenpeace UK

“I’d say party that is scrapping planning rules on fracking when essentially blocking onshore wind, whilst a large chunk of Pakistan is underwater because of climate change is not really fit to govern in 21st century.”

Twitter

He also called for the BGS survey to be published:

“This survey should be published so we can all see the evidence on which the government chooses to make its decisions. However, the report is about the risk of fracking causing earthquakes – that’s not the only thing that informs any decision.”

Statement

Danny Gross, campaigner at Friends of the Earth

“Anyone who thinks that bringing back fracking will solve the energy crisis is living in cloud cuckoo land. Fracking is a failed industry that’s unpopular and unfeasible. 

“In the decade before it was banned, the industry only managed to frack two sites, and both were aborted due to earthquakes.

“Fracking is a false solution to the cost-of-living crisis The most effective way to bring down our bills and boost energy security for good is to invest in cheap, clean renewables and a nationwide home insulation and energy efficiency programme. 

“By breaking its manifesto promise on fracking, the government is showing that it’s completely out of touch with communities across the country. They have already defeated fracking once and they’re ready to do so again.”

Statement

Bill Esterson, MP for Sefton Central, shadow trade minister, tweeted:

“Fracking would take 10 years to produce gas as Kwasi Kwarteng said. We will only solve the energy crisis by addressing the climate crisis. We should invest in more offshore wind, end the ban on onshore wind, support tidal, more solar, nuclear and hydrogen.”

Twitter

Tina Rothery, Lancashire Nanas

“UK prime minister in post just two days and is goinig to re-open the UK to fracking; we need to be asking what has really changed?

The current moratorium came about because it was clear after 10+ years of trying to frack for shale gas in the UK, that the geology wasn’t suitable and communities would be at risk.

“Nothing has changed to make fracking any safer or more suitable now, than it was when work was halted following multiple seismic events and public opposition.

“Nanas along with residents from throughout the UK and internationally have worked relentlessly to get this industry banned and nothing has changed for us either. We WILL take action to prevent the development of shale gas sites because the health and wellbeing of our children depends on it.

“New PM says drilling projects will go ahead where ‘communities support drilling activity in their local area’ and fracking companies are dangling cruelly-tempting 25% cuts to energy bills for hard-pressed residents. With people facing the cost of living crisis this government created – anyone saying yets to a cut to energy bills will be doing so out of desperation. Not support.

“Claims that fracking for shale gas will have any meaningful input into our energy supplies any time soon, are lies. Claims that shale gas from UK shale is for UK residents is also a lie. Gas is bought and sold at the international market price which will not bring down energy bills here and the gas won’t be labelled ‘UK gas for UK use’.

“This government has been in power for more than 12 years and has failed to get residents or geology to play along with their ambitions to frack the UK; as Nanas we will continue to do all we can to ensure they do not succeed this time either.”


Net Zero Watch


Union Jack Oil


CPRE North and East Yorkshire

“Lifting the moratorium on #fracking does not make sense at all and is simply a knee jerk reaction to Putin’s actions that will make NO impact to our pockets when it is needed in terms of the #EnergyCrisis

Twitter

DrillOrDrop invited Ineos, the UK’s biggest onshore shale gas licence-holder, to comment. It did not respond. Ineos’s Tom Crotty told Power Engineering: ““Shale has helped transform the energy landscape and the local communities in the US. The US is well protected against the energy crisis as it is making the most of its natural resources. “It can do the same here in the UK. We have promised to invest the first 6% of the value of the gas back into the local communities. It goes without saying that the government would also have an increased tax take.”

71 replies »

  1. Excellent analysis about Green Energy.

    BBC World Service Radio. The Compass, Green Energy: Some Inconvenient Truths Episode 1, Transport. Allan Little investigates the ‘inconvenient truths’ of transitioning to green energy. First Broadcast 10th August 2022 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct43dp
    BBC World Service Radio. The Compass, Green Energy: Some Inconvenient Truths Episode 2, Renewables. Allan Little investigates the best way to capture, store and redistribute the renewable sources of energy freely available all over the world – wind, solar and hydro. First Broadcast 17th August 2022.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct43dq
    BBC World Service Radio. The Compass Green Energy: Some Inconvenient Truths Episode 3, Iceland. How is Iceland is embracing the challenges of getting to a net zero future? First Broadcast 24th August 2022 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct43dr
    BBC World Service Radio. The Compass, Green Energy: Some Inconvenient Truths Episode 4, Finance. How is the world going to get to net zero by 2050 and who is paying the bill? First Broadcast 31st August 2022. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct43ds

    • Thanks Dr. Nick. Book marked and I will listen to the programs this week. I expect all the anti-FF brigade will also be listening, perhaps this will help them to better understand the issues.

    • That’s right Dr Nick Riley ,

      I find exactly the same thing , total silence . It’s almost as if I’m writing in foreign language , or pro-frackers are finding themselves with sudden bouts of blindness , maybe the forum hosts , Ruth and Paul should consider displaying this page in form of braille.

      I find this problem especially acute when I put up the proven data linking FRACKING to Cancer , birth defects and other serious health problems , environmental damage , extreme climate change and a sharp decrease in the value of homes in Fracking areas .

      • Jackthelad. Sorry you feel your posts are ignored . Can only think it’s because you just forget posts supportive of home produced energy. Here’s one of my efforts but I know that anti- vaxers & anti-frackers are immune to arguement!:
        home produced energy can generate royalties & taxes (which should perhaps be increased) to contribute to the vast sums needed to support the millions facing energy poverty.
        Home energy left unexploited is merely replaced by imports AND means that somewhere in the world more coal is burned to the much greater detriment of the environment.
        Every little helps & at this time we should all do our bit.Selfish nibbyism masquerading as environmental concern should not be tolerated.

        REPLY

        • Proven, Rod.

          Additionally, if all these nasty things are associated with US fracking (LOL) then it must be better for UK to do it in UK with far tighter controls than might be applied in USA, rather than just import the gas from that source.

          As Rystad have stated:
          “US and European price differences are so wide, producing and shipping gas across the Atlantic, even allowing for the PRICEY liquefaction process, is still economically advantageous”.

          The advantage is for the US. The disadvantage for Europe, including UK. $7V$47 seems pretty proven too.

        • ” REPLY ”

          Oh dear ROD , your sounding like a desperate shale Gas investor

          Do you work for TESCO ????? I see you like their catch phrase ” every little helps ” haha.

          ROD , are you not aware of the major Gas interconectors between the UK and continental Europe ??????

          GAS flows freely between the two .

          ROD , didn’t you know that ” experts ” have said , expensive UK Fracking won’t I repeat WON’T bring down the price of GAS in the UK …

          Fracking companies are NOT charities you know , any GAS produced will be sold on the open market to the highest bidder.

          AND ROD , experts have said there’s NOT even 5 YEARS of Fracked Gas Available in the UK .

          https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/20/fact-check-why-fracking-uk-will-not-reduce-energy-bills

          What an expensive , toxic white elephant UK Fracking would turn out to be .

          • Nope, doesn’t flow freely, Jack. It flows very expensively! And, the flow is not sufficient to meet demand, so doesn’t supply security.

            You missed the announcement about the windfall tax and the discount on energy prices for those in the vicinity of a fracking site? So, your experts are just factually incorrect Jack. Energy prices are already being reduced due to UK production. More on the way. I have had my £150, and more starting next month I have been informed. If someone wants to frack near me, I will be offered even more.

            I provided the link to the evidence you are unwilling to pursue. I cannot do the drinking for you Jack, I have led you to the water. Your problem not mine.

            No, I have not looked at your link. Why should I? It is just the same as I could find for the perceived or actual concerns regarding the use of electricity. Of course, rather than import gas fracked in USA Jack would no doubt see the advantages of producing it cheaper in UK with UK standards applied and UK taxation, windfall or otherwise, to help fund over £100B of new support to reduce energy bills. LNG is an expensive form of gas supply, and the importation of it supplies no tax take to the UK Treasury..

            Gas produced in UK does NOT need to be sold to the highest bidder. USA operated an export embargo for many years to control domestic pricing. UK does operate export embargoes on goods where it is felt appropriate. Not difficult to do if UK wanted to. Debate after debate in the House of Commons that more should apply, not less.

            Stand by generators in every hospital in UK Jack, for when there are power cuts. They also seem to have been missed by you.

            • MARTIN

              That’s right , it doesn’t flow freely , Fracked gas flows very , very expensively.

              Fracking truly is scraping the bottom of the fossil fuel barrel .

              Martin we’ve discussed this previously on a number of occasions , I’m seriously beginning to be concerned about these regular memory lapses of yours , JACK seems to be endlessly repeating the same things to you .

              The 25% discount is only on the GAS bill and only for people living in the immediate vicinity of a Fracking site.

              For that miserable 25% discount the trade of will be a a sharp drop in the value of their homes , an increase in light , noise and heavy traffic movement in their towns and villages .

              Most importantly they will put their families , up to 8 times more at risk of getting cancer , asthma and other serious/fatal health problems . For pregnant women they risk miscarriages and birth defects . Their children will be up to THREE times more risk of getting leukaemia and you think that 25% is worth all that ???????

              MARTIN , you must be living in cloud cuckoo land .

              Of course Fracked gas will be sold to the highest bidder . Fracking companies are not charities .

              If they don’t care about seriously effecting the health of the people in the UK , do you honestly think their going to be bothered if people are cold in winter ????????

              I THINK NOT old chap.

              Their policy will be to squeeze the British customers for every penny they can get , whilst paying fat cat salaries to those at the top and sprinkling oa few crumbs to shareholders.

              As far as paying UK TAX GOES , don’t make me laugh , when offsetting loses and running costs . HMRC will be lucky to get enough dough to buy new pencil sharpeners for the office .

              FINALLY, so all the readers are fully aware.

              Is this study from the highly prestigious , world famous, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH of any importance to you MARTIN ????????

              Fracking and childhood CANCER .

              https://news.yale.edu/2022/08/17/proximity-fracking-sites-associated-risk-childhood-cancer

              Well MARTIN , your thoughts please .

              • Ignored Jack, as your posts are irrelevant, I understand.

                However, I did note your very lame attempt at discounting the discount being considered to be offered to the local residents. Absolute nonsense, Jack. Incorrect, fake news. The area that a discount would/could apply to has YET to be determined. I would expect it may vary according to individual sites. There is also consideration regarding a share of the revenue in addition, plus a large community fund. So, Jack, that is why you are ignored. You attempt to create a fake narrative by plonking something out there as fact when it is not. And, you just continue to rinse and repeat, as your previous nonsense about Chesapeake Energy proves.

                • OK MARTIN ,

                  OR should with address you as Mr ” OPINION ” only ???????

                  As that’s all it ever is , an Off-Ghe-Cuff OPINION backed up with the usual sweet nothing.

                  Well if that’s the best response you have , I know your well and truly on the ropes.

                  Just so you are fully aware , you , ‘m not trying to convince . I would though like to personally thank you for giving JACK endless opportunities to HAMMER home the serious health and financial Implications of living close to a Fracking site ….. Without your help , I’d only have the chance to didplay a fraction of the posts on this forum page .

                  Keep it up MARTIN .

                • Maybe my intention was to get you to post your endless nonsense, Jack?

                  What has been the result?

                  Lots of incorrect stuff, plus seen as irrelevant by your fellow-travellers/New Age travellers, and ignored by others.

                  Sophisticated? Nope. Helpful to the antis? Certainly not. Your response to being caught, yet again, not having researched a topic fully and then posting an incorrect statement, is par for you, and whilst it continues then the individuals who would like to see an audience being provided with evidence they cannot refute, will see an audience that has become bored with nonsense and inaccuracies, and will just believe all other anti comments are tarred with the same brush. Perhaps they may come to the conclusion that with fake news having to be routinely used that there really is no coherent argument that could be used? A few may think, Jack the Vlad, ie. a disgruntled competitor using any means whether true or false to try and deal with a competitor. A few may think, “must be a Trojan Horse, employed by the fossil fuel industry”, but most will just ignore.

                  Fill your boots, “Jack”.

                  To indicate how fake your post actually was, Jack, I will provide you with the information, from UK Onshore Oil and Gas:

                  Looking at incentives.

                  £100k for communities to spend on local priorities.

                  Those into production to share total revenues and may ALSO give 25% off local energy bills.

                  How close to site to qualify? Being discussed.

                  That information is in the public domain here in the UK, Jack.

                  Still the same spelling error from you Jack! So, apparently you are unable to learn from your mistakes. You’re doomed to just repeating the same errors, Jack.

                • MARTIN ,

                  Still the same ” punctuation ” problems I see. , your spell checker can’t help you out with that one old chap .

                  What the readers must take note of and remember , is that YOU only ever dispense an ” OPINION. ” Nothing you say can be accepted as fact based , because you never back up anything you say with any evidence .

                  There is one other possibility , maybe you have a fear of putting up a ” LINK ” because your frightened of giving IP ADDRESS information , could that be because you know that Fracking is a truly dangerous, toxic process ?????

                  JACK ” always ” backs up his comments with credible, indisputable evidence from qualified, professional people/organizations .

                  What’s most entertaining, is that you either pretend you’ve not seen my damning evidence against the Fracking industry , or you occasionally snap back with childish comments like , quote , ” Maybe my intention was to get you to post your endless nonsense ”

                  REALLY MARTIN , what’s it all about ??????

                  OH DEAR MARTIN , £100k for local communities you say , that won’t even cover the compensation claim of one child with Fracking related Leukemia.

                  Fracking and childhood CANCER .

                  https://news.yale.edu/2022/08/17/proximity-fracking-sites-associated-risk-childhood-cancer

                • [Edited by moderator]

                  referring to the evidence provided, £100k, and stating that it is an opinion. Link provided-UK On Shore Oil&Gas. More fake news in response. I provided the source, could be checked if unconvinced. Evidence, not opinion.

                  Thanks for proving my point, Jack (?) You are simply unable to resist it.

                • MARTIN

                  Every man and his dog knows about the £100k community fund on offer from Fracking companies , that I’m not in dispute with you about.

                  The point I’m making , is the £100k will be chicken feed when an onslaught of compensation claims are directed at these Fracking companies.

                  I expect these fly-by-night companies will be long gone by that time .

                  MARTIN , how MUCH money is Breast Cancer in a woman worth ???????

                  https://www.bcaction.org/the-root-causes-of-breast-cancer/our-fossil-fuel-work/dont-frack-with-our-health/

                  Your answer please

                  Just to press home a point , you have never, NEVER put a ” LINK ” up on this forum .

                • [Edited by Moderator]

                  My thoughts about litigation? Well, I would suggest as the fracking industry is thriving in USA, which is the home of spurious litigation, then the reality would show over many years that there would seem to be a big gap between what may be found on the Internet and what might stand up in Court. Thanks for bringing that point of reality into the debate. Perhaps not the wisest move, but that has never stopped you before. So, as you have arrived at that point, after having filled DoD with all your pages of “evidence”, why and how have the frackers in USA survived all that litigation that would be so easy in the home of the brave and the lawyer?

                  There has been litigation though Jack, in USA, concerning the link between power lines and wildfires. Very expensive litigation, yet electricity is still distributed. DYOR. Others do.

                • MARTIN ,

                  Are you a GAS MANTLE maker ?????

                  It’s a serious question , hoping for a return to the good old days of gaslight.

                  I ask because your attempt to vilify electricity is going to have readers rolling around the floor in laughter 🤣

                  ALTHOUGH , HMMMM YES , Well I have to admit , there would be a limited number of street LAMPLIGHTER jobs created , so I suppose that would be a positive step for the economy.

                  Yes I can see it now , Dentist’s drilling teeth under gaslight , Hospitals performing operations under gaslight HAHAHA .

                  Whilst your trying to turn us against electricity , what are your thoughts on this ??????

                  It concerns the toxic ” forever chemicals ” in Fracking .

                  https://www.ehn.org/pfas-fracking-in-drinking-water-2657776204/pfas-pennsylvania

                  Well MARTIN ??????

                  OH DEAR MARTIN , I see your still having difficulty understanding what a ” LINK ” is …. Just click on the RED words . That’s what a link is .

                  PLEASE stop pretending your putting up ” links ” because your NOT.

                • A link, according to the OED is a means of connection, Jack (?) I use the official definition, not yours. I show you where the water is, but you refuse to drink. Your problem, not mine. Maybe a bit more consideration of the OED would help you with your and you’re?

                  Never stated anything about gas replacing electricity. I stated electricity can produce a lot of problems perceived and real to humans. Your lame attempt to rewrite my script because you have no answer to the original is again, your problem, not mine.

                  Wandering off into the litigation trap was your decision. I meanwhile noticed you had no answer when caught in that trap. Again, your problem, not mine. Instead of an answer:

                  Pennsylvania! OMG. Well, look up litigation and the link between power lines and forest fires in California. Reality. But because it is, more attempts at deflection will be the smokescreen.

                  Perhaps you have stumbled on the reason why you are not taken seriously? That is the issue with a one trick pony. Once the trick has been seen boredom sets in pretty quickly.

                • GEEEEE WIZZ MARTIN,

                  You talk about being a well traveled man/woman of the world , but your woefully , poor lack of understanding about other countries shows that in reality , you probably haven’t been further than your own garden gate .

                  What I’ll do is do is try and explain this in real simple terms . In the home of litigation ,the USA , the way the Oil and Gas Industry works is quite simple.

                  You may have a very strong case against a Fracking company , but unless you have an almost limitless supply of cash , the way these Fracking companies work is just to drag out the case for as long as possible , until you run out of cash paying your exorbitant legal fees .

                  The case then collapses .

                  The Fracking company then puts in a counter claim to recover their legal expenses , taking your last remaining assets and running you in to bankruptcy..

                  This tried and tested policy serves as a WARNING to all others , who dare challenge this toxic industry .

      • Not surprising really, Jack. Other anti buddies refer to your posts as irrelevant.

        Perhaps if you stopped the simplistic and very narrow use of a search engine then relevance may re-emerge.

        Meanwhile, if I asked Ruth and Paul to constantly be reviewing page after page of my links to the known and perceived dangers of electricity, it might produce total silence. Otherwise known as boredom.

        • Oh dear MARTIN ,

          More of your ” gibberish ” if your going to make a comment, please have the decency to back it up with some evidence.

          Whilst I have your attention , what are your thoughts on this , or will you be pretending you’ve not seen the ” link ” below ???????

          Children living near Fracking sites have higher rate of CANCER , Yale study finds

          https://www.fox29.com/news/children-living-near-fracking-sites-have-higher-rate-of-cancer-yale-study-finds

        • Oh dear , Oh dear MARTIN ,

          YOUR not now trying to turn people against ELECTRICITY in favour of GAS are you???????.

          REALLY

          HAHA , can you really see hospitals going back to performing major operations under Gas Light ????????

          Can’t see that one catching on anytime soon old chap.

        • Jackthlad. I have no financial interest in fracking. I am well aware that energy prices are international but have said that Government can charge royalty & tax on home produced energy which can contribute to helping those facing energy poverty. Is it really better that foreign governments, some unsavory, enjoy these royalties?
          Hundreds of wells have been sunk in England .Has any community suffered any harm (apart from protest mobs)?
          Almost all commodities have an international price. Based on your argument our farmers might as well give up because their fields of wheat or whatever do not reduce the world price. The rewilding lobby might rejoice so long as they got their food from abroad.
          No ,UK energy will not solve all our problems but “every little helps” or to go up-market see Mr Micawber on income & expenditure!

    • Hi Eli
      Your comment was edited because it broke the house rules on the contents of posts.

      Since then, by my count, you have submitted 18 posts, all of which have been published unchanged.

      Sounds fairly impartial to me.

  2. Jackthelad: we will never agree but I would be interested in a response to my query:

    “Hundreds of wells have been sunk in England .Has any community suffered any harm (apart from protest mobs)?”

    • Not a chance, Rod. One trick pony there. The search engine only allows one direction. Anything else, and lost.

      But lots of communities in USA have suffered harm from electricity. Pages and pages available detailing it. Usually, when investigated the answer is the same. Perceived or real harms are outweighed by the benefits. Bit like crossing the road to get to the doctor’s surgery. Plenty of people worried about crossing the road. However, can be done safely and benefit may be quite large.

      Spoke with someone this weekend about the R.Test around Stockbridge. The trout fishing is still some of the best in the world and people spending up to £1500 for a day ticket. Doesn’t seem any harm there.

    • ROD

      First let me clarify my position on the Oil/Gas Industry . Since the dawn of time , the policy of drill more , extract more , increase profits more has been a floored model for humanity . As climate change has now brought home the stark realities of burning endless amounts of the easy to reach fossil fuels.

      Fast forward in time and were now at the point where the , scraping the bottom of the barrel process ( fracking ) , trying to get to and extract the hard-to-reach fossil fuels in order to continue our desperate , carefully orcastrated addiction now seems to be an acceptable policy in some quarters.

      As with any addiction , it’s hard to break .

      In order for the human race to survive , global warming has to be addressed which means carbon emissions must drop rapidly . This is now an known fact .

      I’m not in favour of short term sticking plasters , such as endless windfall taxes on oil/gas companies , the benefits for the consumer have limited , short term effects and do nothing to address the increase in global emissions , nor the long term price of an ever decreasing , easy to get to oil/gas supply ….. The harder Oil/Gas extraction gets , the HIGHER the price will be .

      This in turn will NOT equate to higher profits for the Oil/Gas companies as their operating costs will go up , nor will it equate to lower prices for the consumer.

      Far better it would be , to FORCE oil/gas companies to re-invest more of their colossal profits in to environmentally friendly forms of energy production .In the long term this will financially benefit the oil/gas companies , the shareholders and pension funds . It will also lead to LOWER bills for the consumer.

      It’s well known that green energy is now a highly profitable business , where as on the other hand , Fracking and Tar Sand oil extraction is highly energy-intensive , very costly and only excellerates the climate crisis.

      UK Fracking would also have serious health implications for the people , this in turn could cost the NHS £ billions.

      Yes ROD , there are hundreds of sunk Wells in England , but these have not been subject to the intense , extreme high pressure fluid injection process known as Fracking.

      Like any Joe Bloggs can work out , you start pumping high volumes of toxic fluid into rocks with pressures in excess of 9,000 psi, you ain’t got much of a clue as to where it’s all going to end up and in our densely populated UK , that’s going to be a problem.

      As far as the 100s of abandoned , onshore , UK wells go , you have to admit the ” LINK ” below shows there are some problems . With Fracking these problems will be many times worse.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26692050

  3. Jackthelad, thanks. Have read your links & feel able to claim that no community in UK has suffered from local drilling. No volcanoes, no polluted drinking water, no air pollution or any of the horrors invented by the protest industry. Property values have gone up, not down.
    Yes, renewables maybe the long term future but until we have nuclear back up we shall need some oil & gas.
    This is an emergency,with millions facing energy poverty & future generations facing huge national debt as Government tries to ease the burden.
    I repeat, every barrel of oil left in the ground represents more coal burned somewhere.
    There is a potential oil well a mile from my home. I consider it simply selfish to object to some possible minor inconvenience at this time.

    • Please explain the evidence behind your [edited by moderator] frankly insulting claims. You allege “No damage from fracking”. The property damage suffered by some 100 plus people due to earthquakes caused by Cuadrilla’s franking was only too real. You further claim that property values were unaffected, going up rather than down. I sold my property in Roseacre, Cuadrilla’s nominated second site. The mere threat of franking depressed the value of my home by £25,000. [edited by moderator] subjects on which you are clearly ignorant.

      • Jules Burton, Sorry you lost money on your property. In my experience (I live within a mile of a drilling site, ) it is protester mobs & not the actual drilling that downgrades nearby areas. Once it is realised that all the scare stories about volcanoes etc are just ignorant hot air ( excuse the pun) all returns to normal & property values resume their relentless climb.
        Wytch Farm & Kimmeridge host long standing oil wells & some of the country’s most expensive residences. Not much consolation but we have all miss-timed property deals, so renewed sympathy.
        The earth tremors you mention were minor & such as occur in many parts of the UK Hundreds of miles from drilling sites. They have been used to delay the development of home produced energy & we will never know how many deaths from energy poverty have resulted.

        This is an emergency. We should all be prepared to put up with a bit of inconvenience.

        • I suspect you were lucky Rod. Cuadrilla’s proposed second site was at Roseacre Wood, approx 400 metres from my house. All property values were negatively affected, not due to protesters but due to the threat Cuadrilla duplicating the heavy industrialisation already visible at their Preston New Road site about 1 mile away as the crow flies, and bringing those levels of noise, traffic and associated pollution to a tiny hamlet of 16 houses and 4 farms. Ironically, a rural area so remote there is no gas supply to the village!! As for house prices, as you know a selling price is determined by the value of the last property sold in the area. My neighbours across the road had to sell as the area was too remote for convenient access to shops or medical practices. Their property went on the market just as Cuadrilla announced their plans in 2014. As the news of fracking was published the number of potential purchasers dwindled to almost nothing. After 2½ years on the market the property sold in 2017 for £40,000 less than the asking price which had been set by previous prices attained. This precedent affected all properties. My house went on the market in 2017. It had previously been valued at £275,000. Due to franking the estate agent advised me to market the property at £250,000. It finally sold in 2019 for £230,000. Please do not attempt to blame protesters or other outside factors for consequences which are entirely the fault of the franking industry. Incidentally, even when planning permission for Roseacre Wood was finally refused by the government in 2019, house prices did not improve. A new artificially low price floor had been set. We all paid a premium for our properties due to their being in a desireable green belt area. We went without in order to afford our homes. When you find yourself expected to personally subsidize an unwanted industry to the tune of £40,000 out of your own pocket, and then to see your investment further damaged due to earth tremors caused by that same industry. Then to hear politicians saying that there is “No Evidence” to support a drop in property values or property damage due to franking. Then to be accused by the franking industry, their paid shills and those same politicians, of being little more than privileged NIMBY’s. It is at this point that you realise that you don’t matter, that your well-being is unimportant and that your life is of no consequence. All that matters is that the accountants show a huge profit. I truly hope that you never find yourself in this position Rod. But don’t take my word for it, ask any one of the families living around the Fylde near one of Cuadrilla’s sites (still the only ones to have been franked in the UK) and you’ll hear the same cautionary tale. When it comes to profit, people are a trivial detail to be vand ignored. ignored.

          • Jules, I sympathise & in the same circumstances would probably react as you do.
            If individuals are adversely affected they should be properly compensated.
            Almost all desirable infrastructure projects, railways, roads, hospitals etc have an adverse impact on nearby communities & they should be properly compensated.
            I would happily join you in campaigning for this provided it did not involve supporting the selfish nimbies supporting imported over home produced energy.

    • Well, that was interesting, Rod!

      So, international companies can be forced to change their operations in the way suggested? Environmentally friendly forms of energy? Like hydrogen! Doing it.

      They could just clear off to do what they are geared up to do elsewhere in the world, and then supply the demand in the country where they were, but at a higher price, increasing transport emissions in the process. Doing it.

      Meanwhile, Rod, the reality of your comment about coal is stark, and recently confirmed within the Glencore results. Their shareholders seem quite happy about it.

      The appeal to the younger generation is still being attempted, yet it is that generation that will have the debt burden of Covid and now energy debt to pay for. I understand from some in that generation they are now circulating a Wanted poster for Greta! Not sure whether for murder or robbery, but either way, it does show how positions alter with circumstances, except for a few diehards.
      You will be fine with your potential oil well if it becomes a real one, from my experience. A colleague had one within a similar distance, in a rural location. His reaction was it caused less impact than his local farmers with their combines running through the night and their grain driers doing the same ie. a little noise and light for a short period, but in both cases, he used the output so had no problem. Several other colleagues had them a few miles away and were even unaware of what they were.

      • MARTIN

        I wouldn’t expect anyone who has difficulty understanding what a ” LINK is to understand .

        Whilst your here MARTIN , What are your thoughts on this ??????

        FRACKING and how it’s destroying the Earth’s Atmosphere

        https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/fracking-boom-tied-to-methane-spike-in-earths-atmosphere#:~:text=The%20chemical%20signature%20of%20methane,gas%20operations%20as%20the%20culprit.&text=Scientists%20have%20measured%20big%20increases,atmosphere%20over%20the%20last%20decade.

        • Wouldn’t you Jack(?) I have given you the OED definition. I recall another poster had similar problems with the definition of “fact”. Perhaps it is simply that a bit more education is required?

          I believe Rod can see how you take speculation-“could”-and make it a fact. Just a repeat of the original error.

          If you and Jules would like some actual facts, land opposite my house has recently been designated for building, within our local plan. That will knock £250,000 off my property value. Happening all over the country on a weekly basis. Unfortunate for some, beneficial for others.

          Reference your latest bit of nonsense, so is the production of rice Jack. And, rather than have concern for fracking in the USA where they are rather wasteful with the gas, as it is so cheap, then focus on the UK where the gas is very expensive and desperately wanted! Perhaps, whilst I am on a roll, would you like me to solve world hunger? Okay, start with removing crop production for powering vehicles and use it for food. I await my Nobel Prize.

          Anyway, enough of this. I have to attempt another culinary masterpiece, having triumphed with apple and blackberry crumble earlier.

          • [Edited by moderator] Martin, it clearly feeds your fixations – it certainly gives me a laugh!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

            • You refer to my culinary masterpiece, Jules?

              Well, the crumble was IMHO, as the filling was out of my garden and blended with cinnamon and soft brown sugar, which I had not tried before but it came out rather well. Made an extra one for my son and family so will see if it is to their liking. Only problem was the special pots I had bought to cook them in were imported from China! Would you believe it? Importing something all that way that could be produced in UK!

              Then, my first go at liver and bacon with onions and gravy, was a success, but I have noted that I need to get my timing a bit more precise as too much of my gravy cooked off. So, more of a work in progress than a masterpiece, for the time being.

              Both together make a pretty cheap meal, with few food miles involved, that I have now tried before winter sets in. May help me to be able to afford to heat and eat. Suspect I am not alone in testing out ways to do that. My butcher was surprised at how cheap the meal would be. He told me he usually donated the lamb’s liver to the local dog sanctuary.

              What an offal waste! 🤣

              Keep laughing.

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