Still from a video of INEOS vibroseis machines, or “thumper trucks”, in a field on the Oxcroft Estate, 5 October 2017. Used with the author’s permission
Last week, the Bolsover MP, Dennis Skinner, asked the prime minister to investigate drinking water problems in an area of his constituency where the shale gas company INEOS had been carrying out seismic surveys.
People on the Oxcroft Estate, a land settlement area of scattered homes and small holdings, had complained about discoloured water coming out of their taps.
Residents said the problems began after INEOS used vibroeseis machines, called thumper trucks by the residents, in fields near their homes earlier this month.
INEOS denied its work caused the problem. Severn Trent blamed a leak in a private water supply 3km away. It said a contractor (not INEOS) had damaged a pipe with a digger.
A timeline compiled by DrillOrDrop shows there are other differences in the accounts of what happened from the residents, water company and INEOS.
A key piece of information is when the problems began on the Oxcroft Estate and when the private water supply pipe was damaged. Residents have photographs of discoloured water from 5 October. Severn Trent said it was aware of the damage to the pipe on the following day. But the company said it was unable to say when the damage was caused.
The timeline also reveals a deteriorating relationship between INEOS and the local people who oppose its plans.
On Friday, an INEOS statement blamed what it called the anti-fracking lobby for “unfair commentary which altered reality to suit its point of view”.
Residents on the Oxcroft Estate who DrillOrDrop spoke to last week were unwilling to give their names for fear of “reprisals”.
Timeline
Thursday 5 October 2017
Vibroseis vehicles or “thumper trucks” on the Oxcroft Estate on 5 October 2017. Photo used with the author’s permission
Residents on the Oxcroft Estate settlement near Bolsover report that INEOS Shale and its contractors are carrying out seismic surveys using three vibroseis vehicles in fields within 50m of their homes. People in their homes during the testing say they felt vibrations through their feet and their homes shook.
Residents talk online about changes to the colour of their water.
Names redacted. Used with the author’s permission
Residents also photograph discoloured water that evening when filling sinks and baths.
They say the problem appears to be restricted to the Oxcroft Estate, later confirmed by Severn Trent.
Friday 6 October
More residents experience discoloured water and report the problem to Severn Trent.
Residents say call centre staff tell them there are no other reported issues in the local area. According to residents, call centre staff say they are unaware of any seismic surveys in the area.
Severn Trent says it believes the water is safe to drink and informs customers to run taps for 20 minutes to clear sediment from the system. No tests have been carried out on the water at this stage.
Severn Trent says it learns that a contractor with a digger has cut through a private water network in a field off Mooracre Lane, Bolsover, 3km from the Oxcroft Estate.
Saturday 7 October 2017
Residents continue to experience discoloured mains water and ask Severn Trent to test the water and investigate the cause.
Severn Trent says it collected a tap water sample and tests came back as satisfactory.
Sunday 8 October 2017
Residents continue to experience intermittent discoloured mains water and ask Severn Trent to carry out testing and an investigation. One resident experiences further deterioration in water colour.
Monday 9 October 2017
1pm: Oxcroft Estate residents speak to a Severn Trent engineer who arrives in the neighbourhood. The residents say he was unaware of any discoloured water issues and was responding to the detection of “a significant loss of water” in the area. Residents say the engineer investigated pipework close to the area that had been seismically surveyed.
Residents talk to INEOS representative, Gordon Grant, on the Oxcroft Estate about the possibility that pipes may have been disturbed or damaged.
Tuesday 10 October 2017
8.20am: Severn Trent vehicles return to the Oxcroft Estate. Residents speak to a different member of staff who is not aware of the seismic testing. Residents say that after hearing a description of the seismic testing process he says it could explain the discolouration and “multiple leaks” on the Oxcroft Estate. Residents say the engineer investigates pipework near the areas that have been seismically surveyed.
3.20pm: BBC Look North team records interviews with residents on the Oxcroft Estate and plans to include a live report in the evening news programme. The team films a Severn Trent representative who tests the discoloured water samples collected by residents from the weekend. BBC Look North does not air the item. A BBC spokesperson told DrillOrDrop:
“Look North checks out many stories, not all of which make it to air, for a number of reasons. The programme has covered many stories related to fracking in the region, and will continue to do so when appropriate.”
Residents write to their MP, Dennis Skinner, about their concerns.
Wednesday 11 October 2017
7.52am: Residents report Severn Trent vehicles return to the Oxcroft Estate. Mmebers of staff reportedly investigate pipework again near the area that has been seismically surveyed and at the front of properties on a private lane.
Thursday 12 October 2017
Water in an Oxcroft Estate resident’s home, 12 October 2017. Photo: Used with the author’s permission
9.34am: Residents say they continue to experience intermittent discoloured mains water and some experience a further deterioration. They call on Severn Trent to test the water and investigate the cause.
Residents report Severn Trent vehicles return to the Oxcroft Estate and investigate pipework again in the same area as on Wednesday 11 October. Engineers drain water directly from the mains to flush out the worst affected water.
One household, which had an external filter, reports there has been no water discolouration but the filter had collected sediment. Severn Trent provides bottled water to one resident after she raises concerns about the health of her baby.
Dennis Skinner replies to residents, saying he will write to INEOS and Severn Trent. Residents say they write again to Mr Skinner to update him and they make a complaint to the Drinking Water Inspectorate.
Severn Trent tells DrillOrDrop the burst pipe is on Mooracre Lane in Bolsover. INEOS tells DrillOrDrop it was working 3km away from Mooracre Lane.
Friday 13 October 2017
Residents on the Oxcroft Estate say they continue to experience intermittent discoloured mains water. They again ask Severn Trent to carry out testing and investigations.
Co-op water donation to the Oxcroft Estate, 13 October 2017. Photo: Used with the author’s consent
The local branch of the Co-op delivers 100 2l bottles of water to affected residents
Residents report Severn Trent vehicles return to the Oxcroft Estate and staff again investigate pipework in the same areas as on previous days.
One Oxcroft Estate resident says Severn Trent confirms there is a leak in front of their property, within 300m of the seismic survey sites and on pipework that has sections within 150m of the sites.
3.24pm: An online Derbyshire Times article says:
“Severn Trent says it believes the discolouration has been caused by a burst water pipe and the company has told Bolsover District Council that there is no evidence to suggest that damage was caused to pipes or that the surveys played a part in the discolouration.”
Monday 16 October 2017
8am: Residents report that Severn Trent vehicles return to the Oxcroft Estate and staff investigate pipework in the field that was seismically surveyed along Oxcroft Lane. Residents say the staff member confirms that the company suspects a further rupture in this separate section of pipe – the second suspected leak near the seismic survey area.
Severn Trent staff on the Oxcroft Estate, 16 October 2017. Photo: Used with the author’s permission
Severn Trent press office tells DrillOrDrop the Mooracre Lane leak in Bolsover “was not related to INEOS”. The press officer also says:
“There’s no other leaks in the area at the moment. I’ve checked the area for Oxcroft Estate and nothing else has been reported.”
Wednesday 18 October 2017
Derbyshire Times online article updated with a statement from Derbyshire County Council. This says Severn Trent “have informed us they have no evidence to suggest there had been any damage to their pipes or that the seismic surveys have been a factor in the discolouration.”
Dennis Skinner at Prime Minister’s Questions, 18 October 2017.
At Prime Minister’s Questions, local MP Dennis Skinner calls for a full investigation and the halting of the seismic survey programme.
INEOS issues a statement in response:
“INEOS takes its responsibility for all its works very seriously and takes into account all relevant environment and infrastructure before working on site. Underground imaging surveys have played a long-time role in understanding the UK’s geology, particularly in the era of coal.
“In this case, our survey was carried more than 3 kilometres from the leak reported at Bolsover. There is zero evidence that links the Severn Trent water leak to our work.
“Severn Trent is currently investigating the reported water supply issues in the area. In the meantime, we are disappointed that Mr Skinner chose to make his comments in Parliament before receiving our response to his letter. As a former miner, he knows better than most what is underground and the work we are doing in Bolsover. Our invitation to him stands, to meet with our geologists to discuss our activity and its proximity three kilometres from the Severn Trent leak.”
Residents report that BBC Look North tells them that it is still following the story.
Thursday 19 October 2017
Residents tell DrillOrDrop Severn Trent staff have told them there are two leaks in pipes on the Oxcroft Estate.
Some residents who were affected by the water problems say they have no confidence in Severn Trent or INEOS’s explanations. They say they are not willing to be identified “for fear of reprisals”.
Severn Trent offers to organise a meeting with residents to explain what happened.
INEOS vibroseis trucks stored on a farm on the Oxcroft Estate, 19 October 2017. Photo: DrillOrDrop
Friday 20 October 2017
Severn Trent repeats to DrillOrDrop that the problems were caused by a digger going through a private water pipe near Mooracre Lane in Bolsover. A Severn Trent team went to that location on 6 October but the company spokesperson was unable to say when the damage was done.
The Severn Trent spokesperson adds:
“The [Bolsover] leak affected out network by increasing flows through our pipes and that led to discolouration for a small number of customers who reported this on 6/10.”
He adds:
“There have been no other leaks in the area, other than a customer reporting a leaking stop tap that was due to be fixed in December but, as we were in the area, it made sense to fix it there and then.”
Residents on the Oxcroft Estate confirm with photographs that the problems began on 5 October. They also say there are no reports of a leaking stop tap.
INEOS issues a statement:
“INEOS Shale has been made aware that Severn Trent has finished its investigation into the recently reported water leak in Bolsover. It concluded the damage was caused by a local contractor, not related to INEOS, who burst a pipe with a digger (equipment that the INEOS survey team does not use).
“The unfair commentary on this issue from the anti-fracking lobby is a prime example of altering reality to suit their point of view.
“INEOS Shale remains committed to safe and community-conscious works as well as responsive and informative consultation and liaison. We sincerely believe Shale gas development can transform the UK’s industrial sector and can bring much needed jobs and investment to the local area.”
Monday 23 October 2017
The community group, Bolsover Against Fracking, tells DrillOrDrop:
“Bolsover Against Fracking has been very aware of the ongoing problems of contaminated water supplies to the residents of the Oxcroft Estates at Bolsover.
“It would appear that there have been several contradictions between INEOS statements and those of Severn Trent and its workmen, both in time and place of the incidents.
“These differences undermine public confidence in the accuracy of statements made by these companies and also in their future integrity.
“The seismic surveying by INEOS is continuing unabated in the area and Bolsover Against Fracking will continue to pay close attention to these further activities.”
Reporting for this piece was made possible by donations from individual readers of DrillOrDrop.com
Categories: investigation
DRILL OR DROP? 
As I suggested some days ago, a water pipe is disturbed (by a digger) and a leak occurs. When this happened is not known, only when the result was observed. Usually get coloured water persisting for some while, even after a repair.
Absolute non news and an attempt to spread a fake story. So I suspect, Skinner will now apologise?
I hope you realise Ruth, you have just demonstrated how “stories” about polluted water can be hijacked and used. Shame this just demonstrates the fake stories quoted endlessly from USA “sources”. But very useful because of that. To Ineos.
Martin you should be asking for a payrise off your employers in the fracking industry with the comments on all these pages you make, you are never off here, maybe your getting a cut out the nuclear waste disposal too?
[Comment removed by moderator]
Wow, Ruth, you are really, really trying to make a story here aren’t you? My question is this: Who will watch the tires and bodies of the delivery trucks to the well sites if your group is so busy tracking down the timeline on discolored water? This is all such important work. Please protect everyone!
Martin Collyer speaks arrogantly on a subject that he obviously has no experience of.This story has not been ‘ hijacked and used ‘. He should try living with these conditions 24/7 before commenting on them.Ruth has produced a factually correct summation of events and does not deserve your patronising response. I think KatT summed up the situation very well
Thanks Ruth for putting these events together so succinctly, it perhaps shows how closely and coincidentally the timelines fit together?
There appear to have been many such coincidences throughout the history of the onshore ohandgee industry? Curious that?
Someone once said “there is no such thing as coincidence” I shall have to look it up.
Carl Gustav Jung of course, he had a theory of “synchronicity” that being the tendency for linked events that are apparently related, to arrive in a series of revealing coincidences that become significant just by their grouping alone.
The theory being that all things are related and that therefore, there is no such thing as coincidence.
Interesting concept.
https://m.theepochtimes.com/synchronicity-as-a-divine-experience_1778005.html
Correlation does not equal causation.
Nobody would believe you if you said that increased US funding for science, space and technology causes an increase in suicides by hanging, strangulation and suffocation – but there is a 99.2% correlation (from the book ‘Spurious correlations’ by Tyler Vigen).
Also “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”? Often attributed to these quotes, and also quoted by Carl Sagan of “Cosmos” fame.
http://freakonomics.com/2011/09/29/the-absence-of-proof/
However there is an equal and opposite point of view (inevitably) with a conditional probability proof no less? i think that is possibly pseudo-science isnt it? Just for balance anyway:
http://oyhus.no/AbsenceOfEvidence.html
You pays your money and…….
Injuneer
Keeping score of water leaks close to Seismic Survey activity
So far ….
SWT 1. INEOS nil
Not that it’s all over yet, as INEOS are only about a third through the plan ( as I remember from the map on the wall at the Warsop INEOS event ).
It is sort of intuitive that vibrating the ground may cause pipework issues, if your pipes are close to failure, or well sedimented. Hence some concerns.
Meanwhile on social media
Frack Free Pocklington ….. INEOS seismic testing near Bolsover has caused water contamination from fractured pipes…….Severn Trent Reluctantly admitting the truth now after various false reasons…!
Frack free Bolsover ( comment ) It’s so disgusting that INEOS are not taking responsibility.
Phil Jones …. John McDonnel MP Labour Commentry and current policy……..We need the clip of Dennis Skinner asking Theresa May about Severn Trent Water investigating water table pollution by INEOS….while test drilling.
Frack free Leeds….. Labour MP Dennis Skinner asked a question about INEOS affecting water table quality…..!
Fracking Hell ….. Dennis Skinner asked questions about INEOS polluting water ….
Comment … first the hit an artesian well, now a mains water pipe. The gold standards are working. Now discovered a gas pipe is in the vicinity….boom.
So, not all quite factual i guess. Some jumping the gun to water table issues.
However, my favourite post extract below, show how frustrated the residents were, especially as the water company was seemingly diliatory in getting to grips with the issue. Plus INEOS did not seem to be sympathetic to their plight.
Comment. ( resident who had Survey truck within 50m of property ) ……..Severn Trent had best be ready in the morning. I do not live in a third world country and I pay my water rates to enable me to drink and bathe in clean water. iNEOS had better get their ear muffs on too.
Mr Skinner has got nothing to apologise for. He is one of a rare breed of MPs who supports the people who voted for him and not [edited by moderator] Ineos.
Ruth. Thanks.
Not really a complex tale, more a tale of two unconnected activities being conflated.
That the integrity of STW has now been called into question is interesting. Hello to the real world of water leaks. Also hello to the real world where, unless all replies are washed through the legal and PR department, there will be some discrepancy between various statements and comments.
I would be a bit more worried if everyone told exactly the same story.
Jeez that’s 5 mins of my life I’ll never get back.
Why don’t you start an investigative report into anti groups taking homeless people off the streets in the UK and offering them a bed and food in return for them learning to be taught to ‘ethically’ hack and target firms such as those involved in the fracking industry. A little ‘not so friendly’ green army is growing.
You’d think you guys would be ploughing in to offshore wind like all the sensible traders, Just shows you how little in the know some of you are!
Raymond
A diversified portfolio makes sense. Dong and e.on are doing OK this year in the portfolio, but not as stellar as Angus and UKOG. Maybe Centrica is now priced appropriately.
Sensible traders may be ploughing their money into a number of assets, not just Energy.
Hi Raymond,
Why are you pushing investment in Offshore Wind so hard? Are your shares falling, because many ‘sensible’ traders left Offshore Wind a couple of years ago to get into the boondoggle that is ‘Smart Meters’?
As Hewes62 said, a diversified portfolio makes more sense, even when Companies like UKOG are doing spectacularly well. For every UKOG, there is a Tower Resources or Sterling Energy that haven’t lived up to the initial enthusiasm.
I have a diverse portfolio Raymondo
thumbs up, GBK.
Thank you for providing all the facts, people will draw there own conclusions, you have simply provided the facts and the timeline. I am sure given the discrepancies with times and dates and given that seismic surveys have caused people’s houses to shake, it is not unreasonable for people to suspect Ineos may have been responsible. Whether it was the digger or Ineos that caused the damage to water pipes, Ineos have, in my opinion, yet again, scored an own goal by showing a complete lack of sensitivity and respect to the local community. Compare that to actions of the CO-OP delivering free water.
The comments made by Ineos are inflammatory and accusatory. Who exactly are the “anti fracking lobby”? Are the residents of the Oxcroft Estate included as a part of the “anti fracking lobby” just because they questioned the actions of Ineos in their neighbourhood and when no satisfactory answers were forthcoming wrote to their MP? It seems to me the residents of the Oxcroft Estate have kept a detailed record of events and comments such as those made by Ineos; ‘ the unfair commentary from the anti-fracking lobby is a prime example of altering reality to suit their point of view” will have done nothing to build any trust within the local community.
[Comment removed by moderator]
Excellent comment KatT, a very well put together summary of these puzzling events and their implications.
[Comment removed by moderator]
Kat
The anti fracking lobby exist as frack free groups. In this case, frack free Bolsover would be the nearest group.
No doubt, had this leak occurred outwith an area being surveyed, it would have run its course without questions in Parliament, as its not unusual.
In the. Mansfield Chad, they report the cause of the leak, and below that is a report on cloudy water in Rainworth. No surveying near Rainworth, so no media frenzy, and no one playing on the concerns of those affected.
I wonder who damaged the pipeline with a digger?
Just for information, this is what Vibroseis trucks in action look like.
They are actually thumping at around12, 35 & 57 seconds into the video.
These are in ‘desert’ configuration, so the hydraulic power packs are not enclosed – hence the noise.
Raymond-perhaps you would like to direct myself, and others, as to how we might invest in Ineos?? I can assure you, I am well past my employment days, and receive no income from fracking exploration companies. How many antis receive an income from Putin before they post on DOD? Do you really need to cover up with all these comfort blankets? If you do, your arguments are pretty thin.
The antis have tried to mislead the public with water pollution stories for a very long time. This has been a “bridge too far”, and the nonsense has been exposed for all to observe.[Edited by moderator] You will have to play the game now without your “ace”.
How dare you accuse “antis” of receiving payment from Russia before posting here. Please show one piece of evidence to substantiate your accusation. But you won’t will you? Because there is none and you have the audacity to accuse the “antis” they mislead!
KatT
I do not think that anyone posting on these pages is paid, either by fracking companies or by Russia.
I do think that Raymond was stirring it a bit by saying Martin is paid by fracking companies and others.
I think that people are inspired by whatever drives them to contribute to the debate here.
Pro posters have been accused of being in the pay of O&G companies a number of times on these pages.
All proof free ( or fact free ) of course.
Lets look at this from a historical viewpoint shall we?
When did the accusations of being funded by various organisations appear on these post? I have been posting on these pages for more than three years or so now, 2012/2013 i think, mainly because i wanted to understand the subject more, and believe it or not, because i was not sure of the positive, or negative outcomes of the operations that were only then being termed fracking, mainly from America i recall.
The accusations of being funded, first by the renewable industry and then on the approach to, and since the UK and US elections, notably the accusations were that antis were being funded by the Russians, i see that strategy is still used in USA, and occasionally here in UK, mainly by the Clinton faction or what has become known as the far left side, a stupid term, since it depends upon what way we are looking from.
Those accusations were initially from the more….volatile…..identities on the pro ohandgee industry side, probably triggered by the USA situation. I don’t recall seeing any similar accusations from the anti posters, until later, if there were any such accusations before i started posting, i don’t know.
I recall the discussions were rather more civilised in those days, except of course by those certain more volatile posters. Gradually the whole subject has become more accusatory and derogatory, primarily by the pro side but of course that was being returned tit for tat by both sides.
I have always considered that the descent into personal attacks was a strategy to avoid discussion and “play the man, not the ball” a no-go in any forum. I see that is rife in the media in general now, a similar strategy i suspect to those we see here.
i recall that is why this site had to become moderated (thanks Ruth and Paul) as comments were becoming very personal and was becoming almost exclusively so from certain quarters and the actual topics were descending into a forum for insult and posters that could have contributed were becoming withdrawn because of the threat of personal attacks.
Essentially, since moderation, we now have this present state of affairs, where almost no comment can be made without some carefully worded personal epithets and rather more blatant derogatory name calling buried in the text, that seems to be standard practice now and that is regrettable on both sides.
i tried to say this before, but as usual it gets ignored, avoided or buried in some other subject, that this derogatory name calling and accusatory game is not doing anyone any good, unless that is a deliberate strategy? i am no less guilty myself, but i feel i do that more out of self defence and i don’t really like having to.
In effect its not about us as individuals, personalities should not come into it, comments could be much more free to be investigative if the poster is not always on their guard against personal attack for saying anything that is technically or socially controversial or combative to one side or the other.
So, now we get calls to “dial back your indignant tone” and that of course leads to reactionary “indignant” replies.
This seems to be the way those certain interests want it, combative and attacking, we might only stop to consider exactly what that achieves?
Your choice.
Phil
Perhaps we need to use emoticons. 😳
=[😏👋💨📫🐉🙈❓✅
Hi KatT,
Please dial back your indignant tone a bit, as you must have seen on these pages that the ‘pro-frac’ people on here are often accused (without evidence) of being in the pay of Frac’ing companies.
In addition, numerous allegations are made (but also never backed up by any evidence) that HM Govt and Tory MP’s are corrupt and also being paid by the same Companies.
So pot, kettle..
Proof please on that accusation. And please do not cite the US allegations. I deal in evidence, please do likewise.
Hi Injuneer, I remain indignant. I consider being accused of being paid by Putin deeply insulting and don’t think it comparable to being accused of working for industry. In fact I fail to see why working for the O&G industry should be seen as an accusation, though I can see it must be tedious if it is assumed that you do and in fact you do not. I can only take responsibility for what I write and I am happy to enter into discussion on that basis. But I will not “dial back” when I am accused of such unfounded and derogatory comments.
Hi KatT,
I’m not surprised at all that you are indignant – I would be indignant if I was accused of working for Donald Trump.
The point is that the “pro’s” are often accused of being in the pay of Frac’ing companies (which is different from actually working in the Oil & Gas Industry), so it doesn’t necessarily come across well when an accusation in the other direction gets such a strong reaction (which I suspect is what that post was designed to do anyway).
You may have missed it, but in my first post I did state that I work in the Oil Industry – or at least did, I am one of the 75,000+ in the UK who took a 100% pay cut when the oil price crashed.
Where it does get tedious is that because I do, then it is automatically assumed that:
A) I am blindly pro-frac’ing
I am pro-frac’ing, but know that many of the scare stories are just that, while the genuine problems have, in the main, been due to poorer US standards that are not as well policed as they are here.
B) I am Climate change denier
Climate change is happening – the science is unequivocal.
C) I don’t accept that burning fossil fuel contributes to climate change.
Burning fossil fuel produces CO2, one of the main reasons for climate change, so yes it does. Also, it doesn’t make sense to use a limited resources for power production, when we should be preserving it for use in industries such as pharmaceuticals that need it for it’s base of production.
D) I don’t care about the environment.
I do – I and my relatives live here too… Besides, I’ve lived and worked in Countries that have few real HSE standards and seen the environmental devastation that can happen (not just by the oil industry) as a result.
Where it gets really irritating is when a poster essentially tells me I don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to the actual process of planning, drilling and completing Wells!
I agree with Phil C (for a change!), we are not kiddies in the playground and this forum should be used for open, rational discussion. Resorting to name calling & false accusations do nobody any good in the end.
🙂 (it’s about the only emoji I know)
Hi injuneer,
OK, I agree with you, perhaps I should start again.
Hi injuneer, I shall re read your posts, I have more time now.
👷 (thought this would suit)
KatT. Actually the Russians have put money into anti fracking groups all throughout Europe as well as in the UK. I fear you are a tad out of your depth to lecture on the subject.
Provide proof of that GBH, lecture us do.
Here you go;
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-10/putin-s-other-american-propaganda-effort-anti-fracking-news
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-secretly-working-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking
http://www.newsweek.com/putin-funding-green-groups-discredit-natural-gas-fracking-635052
http://www.newsweek.com/intelligence-putin-funding-anti-fracking-campaign-547873
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/16/russia-fights-us-fracking-using-shell-company-to-f/
Only five links, so it doesn’t get sidelined to the moderators first.
Well that was short lived,
i was asking GBH, however he and his thumb appear to be otherwise engaged?
However, what do we have with those links, i was asking for proof, ie bank accounts and confessions? But it seems to be just wars and rumours of wars, it is worth remembering that USA and Russia, or more accurately, Trump and Putin are in a very near war situation and as usual, truth is the first to die?
Never mind, lets look a bit closer shall we?
the first link: Bloombergs:
“”This is probably the most high-profile example that points to a direct attempt by Russia to undermine the shale revolution in the United States,” said Katie Brown, a spokesperson for Energy-in-Depth, an education and research project run by the Independent Petroleum Association of America. The group frequently provides counterpoint to environmentalists opposed to fracking in the U.S.
“This raises a lot of questions regarding where funding for anti-fracking foundations comes from,” Brown added. Public charities are not required to disclose all of their funding sources.”
Opinion only, just accusations, and from a protection source of oil and gas, we know about those don’t we? Aren’t RT allowed to comment on the plans for Sherwood Forest? Everyone else did? Just rumours isn’t it? No substance.
next link: Nato via the Guardian
“Rasmussen said: “I have met allies who can report that Russia, as part of their sophisticated information and disinformation operations, engaged actively with so-called non-governmental organisations – environmental organisations working against shale gas – to maintain European dependence on imported Russian gas.”
He declined to give details of those operations, saying: “That is my interpretation.”
Interpretation? i have met allies? No proof there either, just more rumours, not looking good.
Third link, this is more interesting: newsweek: opinion…..
“In their letter to the treasury secretary, Smith and Weber also say the Russians have been able to advance their strategy without “a paper trail.”
They pass along reports that Russia apparently funnels the money through a Bermuda-based “shell company” known as Klein Ltd.
Tens of millions of dollars are moved from Russia through Klein “in the form of anonymous donations” to a U.S.-based nonprofit called the Sea Change Foundation.
The money, the congressmen write, then is moved in the form of grants to U.S. environmental organizations.”
But what do we see here? “without “a paper trail.” Oh dear, another unattributed and unproven accusation? Has anyone heard of the Klein Ltd or the Sea Change Association?
No? Me either? Just another rumour isn’t it?
This is beginning to look like the anti Trump Clinton propaganda used in reverse? Sauce for the goose i guess?
OK next link: Reuters via newsweek:
This is the same accusation, we have seen there is no paper trail, but it doesn’t say so here
“Here in the United States, a Senate report found that the Sea Change Foundation funneled more than $43 million to environmental causes in 2011 — padding the budgets of ardent anti-fracking organizations like the League of Conservation Voters, the Sierra Club and the Natural Resources Defense Council. The Foundation is heavily funded by a Bermuda-based shell corporation with direct ties to Putin and Russian oil interests. The shady firm is currently under indictment for offshore money laundering.”
Have you ever heard of any of these organisations? No, neither have i?
More unatributable rumours and accusations without evidence.
This is the same information reworded isn’t it?
“Co-signed by Rep. Randy K. Weber Sr., Texas Republican, the letter targets the San Francisco-based environmental group the Sea Change Foundation, which is alleged to have taken $23 million in 2010 and 2011 from Bermuda-based shell company Klein Ltd., which reportedly has ties to Russian oligarchs.
According to IRS documents, Sea Change Foundation is a 501(c)(3) private foundation.
After receiving funds from Bermuda, Sea Change is suspected of passing millions of dollars to U.S.-based environmental groups opposed to fracking, including the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Sierra Club and the League of Conservation Voters.
Last week, Klein Ltd. responded to the Capitol Hill accusations and denied funneling Russian money to environmental groups.
“Our firm has represented Klein since its inception, and we can state categorically that at no point did this philanthropic organization receive or expend funds from Russian sources or Russian-connected sources and Klein has no Russian connection whatsoever,” Klein attorney Roderick M. Forrest said in an email to The Times last week.”
“Has no Russian connection whatsoever”
Interesting phrase?
More rumours to bolster trumps pro oil stance and to show he is not in the hands of the Russians isn’t it?
I appreciate what you say injuneer, and i am sure the Russian issue gets the Americans behind Trump and counters the Clinton propaganda from trying to tar Trump with the Russian interfering in US elections strategy.
Just politicians isn’t it? All dirty smoke and cracked mirrors? I am sure they all play with each others balls so to speak and i am sure the balls are very very dirty, but i for one know of no Russian connection and i have deliberately asked that question of many others i have met, i know that they run on shoe string money and are self funded.
if i were to be cruel i would say the best way to investigate any of this is to “follow the money” i know that the people i have met and spoken to are just normal everyday folk who are worried for their families and their communities. So if i were to look, i would look at who has the most money to throw around, and where is that? Look at government and the ohandgee industry itself i would say? You see how easy it is to throw accusations around? In my view, its all a nasty game and we are all unwilling pawns on the board and they will just sweep us all away and start again, but its our lives and our future they are playing with, so i don’t trust them or the media any further than i can vomit them up.
Injuneer, i have lived probably a bit longer than you, i have seen governments come and go, promising the earth and delivering little more than more subjugation and slavery, that is now all coming to the end game.
You either believe the government is your friend or not, you either believe the truth is free and open and you can trust everything you read and hear or you don’t, you either see the media as a truthful forum to give you information to help you live a better life, or you don’t. You either think that multinational corporations and bankers all have your best interests at heart or you don’t.
I don’t, not ours, not theirs, none of them.
Always interesting to see what all these corporate rags get up to, i remember now why i don’t read the newspapers any more, they are little more than heavily censored and carefully script locked social and political engineering propaganda rags.
Well, this has been fun!
Injuneer, Barkis is still willin’ if you are.
Hi Phil C,
I would say the President is a lot closer to pulling the trigger against Iran or North Korea than Russia – Donald T has essentially dropped off the radar altogether once the links between him and Russia surfaced.
I merely provided the same level of evidence that normally gets used against the Oil Industry, although I would suggest the likes of Bloomberg, NATO, The Grauniad, Newsweek and The Washington Times are more reliable sources than most.
Besides, as you said earlier. ‘Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence’!
😉 (I learned a new one!)
Oh, forgot to mention. In that respect, I am very disappointed about how little has come out with respect to ‘The Panama Papers’. I really hoped it would lead to a much more open discussion about who does what, where and when.
I trust ‘Private Eye’, I regard the rest of the news media with a much more jaundiced eye..
Hi injuneer, yes, I thought so, Trump seems to have lost it and become just another candidate for the nuclear bunker stakes?
The Panama papers were censored I thought, no rich white Americans implicated, it just served an agenda to some in game strategy for political supremacy by who knows who?
For good info i go to George Wells, Max Igan, Transconspicuous news, Sgt report, Corbett Report, speaking of smart meters there is the freepower movement, anything said by Trey Gowdy all are interesting if you have the time to watch or listen?
Like you say Private Eye is always a pleasure, and certain alt media sites, though an awful lot of disinformation there too?
A minefield, but there is some positive stuff around, mainly some are becoming more aware of the cons going down all around and doing something about it.
Abbey Martin of course and Liz Wahl, how could I forget Abbey Martin?
Oh KatT.
So the antis can continue to post that I, and others, are paid to make our comments after we have repeatedly provided details of that is not the case, but when we demonstrate how pointless that is, and could equally be directed at the antis, you have to reply with horror! I was accused of “arrogance” at the top of this section. Totally unjustified, and not moderated. That’s all okay then? Have I complained about that?
There would be no point to this part of DOD if statements were not challenged. You could simply sit in front of a mirror. If your fellow posters want to start labelling people without justification do not be surprised if I point out how silly that is. How I do that, to avoid moderation, is my decision.
I can quite understand the wish for diversion away from the implications of this “story”, but it is too late. It is out there, and will come back to haunt your cause-just like the FOE poster. Referencing the actions of the Co-op as if no one realises how many Labour MPs are affiliated, is not going to get much traction, I suspect.
How wonderful to have an MP who is prepared to expose what is happening in his constituency, and support and represent his constituents in the House of Commons! Ineos were not very happy that Denis Skinner MP did not wait for their response before making these incidents public!!But the BBC don’t appear to think what is happening to be newsworthy, even though many people are alarmed by incidents like this.
L.M
Dennis is certainly a well respected MP in his constituency.
I did not see that the owner of the digger, or Severn Trent Water were exposed in the House of Commons.
Plus, the incidents were well exposed in the local press and on social media prior to his intervention. His request was for INEOS to stop surveying while the issue was being investigated.
Brown water is alarming to those who get it, so shame on anyone who muddied the waters further by using it to press their cause.
Re newsworthy, a lot gets covered in the local press that does not make the televised news. There is cloudy water in Rainworth, but I do not expect an update from Look North any time soon.
Is it wonderful to have an MP who is so closed minded that he said he would not meet with Ineos under any circumstances?
I have never accused you or anyone of working for the industry but I actually think being accused of being paid by Putin is very
insulting. You also link the gesture by the CO-OP as a political gesture, which I think unlikely, do you have proof? I will always act indigently when inappropriate comments are made that include me and that are completely untrue.
You were not accused of anything KatT, and you know it. In terms of the Co-ops gesture, maybe it had no political motivation, just like Skinner’s question (lol), but the bigger question is where the plastic was sourced for the bottles!
This discussion has the feel to me of the ASA shot in the foot, where the following weeks saw smokescreen after smokescreen attempts. Another shot in the foot, more smokescreen attempts. Consistent, but not convincing.
Tedious he said she said arguments, the point is people are worried about their water supply and are not reassured by the way matters were handled. Why are they worried, the evidence is there for all to see, just Google it. I don’t have time to make up fairytales about fracking, nor is this collective hysteria. Martin why have they banned fracking in other countries, I wouldn’t call that a small number of opponents, that’s Governments’ decisions based on scientific evidence and outcomes from court rulings.