Live news updates: Inspector backs buffer zones between N Yorks shale gas sites and homes plus local fracking definition

171102 PNR Keith2

Cuadrilla’s Preston New Road shale gas site. Photo used with the owner’s permission

Live updates from the extra session on oil and gas policy at the Examination in Public of the Minerals and Waste Plan for North Yorkshire.

Today’s event, at County Hall in Northallerton, looks at key issues where gas companies disagree with minerals policy proposed for North Yorkshire, the City of York and the North York Moors National Park.

The planning inspector, Elizabeth Ord, is due to look in more detail at issues including set back distances for shale gas sites from homes, buffer zones around the national park and the definition of fracking, dunconventional and conventional operations.

The hearing is expected to hear from representatives of the shale gas industry, campaign groups and the local authorities in the area.

Reporting on this event has been made possible by individual donations from DrillOrDrop readers. No filming or recording is allowed during the session.

Key points from the hearing

  • Against arguments from the industry, the inspector accepts the proposals by the N Yorkshire authorities for:
    • 500m buffer zones between shale gas sites and homes
    • A definition of fracking based on the fracturing of rocks under hydraulic pressure, rather than volumes of liquid
    • A distinction between conventional and unconventional developments
  • Oil and gas drilling will not automatically be treated as “major development”
  • The industry says the precautionary principle does not apply to land use planning
  • The inspector refers to local fear about the development of a shale gas industry and says there’s a need to “tread carefully”
  • Industry threatens a judicial review of the 500m buffer zones between fracking and homes
  • Lynn Calder, of INEOS, says this buffer is “a ban by another name”
  • INEOS says the plan should decide whether shale or potash are more important

Key people at the inquiry

Inspector: Elizabeth Ord
North Yorkshire authorities: Scott Lyness (barrister); Chris France (Director of Planning, North York Moors National Park); Rob Smith, Vicky Perkins (North Yorkshire County Council)
UK Onshore Oil and Gas industry group: Ken Cronin
Lawyer for the industry: Catherine Howard, Herbert Smith Freehills
INEOS representatives: Lynn Calder, David Goold, Philip Neaves, Sandy Telfer, Andrew Batterton (DPA law firm)
IGas representative: Stuart Perigo
Third Energy representative: Alan Linn
Sirius Minerals: Justin Gartland, Graham Clarke
Frack Free Ryedale: Katie Atkinson, David Davis, Frank Colenso
Friends of the Earth: Matthew Dale-Harris

3.50pm Key changes to the plan

The hearing hears that changes relevant to oil and gas include:

    • Five-year period to review the plan;
    • Amended wording on 3.5km visual sensitivity zone around the North Yorks Moors National Park and areas of outstanding natural beauty
    • Changed wording to increase flexibility on  controls over fracking in conventional hydrocarbon operations
    • Addition to address potential cumulative impacts of developments on climate change
    • Changed wording to require developments to avoid periods of heavy traffic and  take account of seasonal variations
    • Requirement for operators to demonstrate adequate waste water management


More details here

2pm Potash and fracking

A previous hearing of the Examination in Public heard that the potash industry wanted setback distances between potash sites and shale gas developments. The plan has already proposed a safeguarding area for potash. INEOS has opposed these issues.

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, tells the hearing that INEOS and the potash company, Sirius, had agreed to discuss the issue. Little appears to have been achieved, he says. Sirius is now proposing a larger safeguarding area than had been previously suggested, Mr Lyness says.

Sandy Telfer, for INEOS, says six petroleum exploration licence would be caught by proposed by the new safeguarding area that would secure potash for up to 200 years. This could restrict shale gas developments, he says.

Mr Telfer says the government has said shale gas is of national importance but potash is of local importance only. He says we should decide which should be safeguarded, he says. Where appropriate, hydrocarbon development should be given priority over potash, he proposes. The potash safeguarding area is now in conflict with the shale gas PEDLs, he says. Should there be a safeguarding policy for the PEDL licences from encroachment from potash, he asks. He also questions the value of  buffer zones around potash sites.

There is a need for consultation between the parties about the risk of sterilisation of resources, Mr Telfer says.

David Goold, also of INEOS, says in other parts of the UK oil and gas operators have to get consent to pass through coal seams or workings. Agreements with the Coal Authority safeguard the resource and require oil and gas operators to take certain health and safety measures. He says this is a good analogue to these circumstances.

Ms Ord asks whether fracking would damage the potash resource. Mr Goold says fracking would not reach groundwater bodies, which are deeper than the potash. Groundwater is protected by submitting a fracturing plan, he says.

Alan Linn, for Third Energy, says his company’s hydraulic fracturing activities are much deeper than the level of the potash.

Sandy Telfer, for INEOS, says there should be an Oil and Gas Authority approved agreement with the potash industry. Ms Ord says there would be need for a direction for an agreement with the potash industry.


Gas site on Ebberston Moor in the North York Moors National Park

Alan Linn, for Third Energy, says the company’s PEDL at Ebberston Moor is now within the Sirius proposed potash safeguarding area. He says the gas in this area is directly below the polyhalite. That gas is extensive in the Ryedale area and will never be fracked, he says. The volume of polyhalite, the source of potash, in that area is very thin, he says. But if they did produce, they would be producing from an area on top of a gas that contains hydrogen sulphide.

Sandy Telfer, for INEOS, says Sirius should demonstrate how they would carry out their work without any sterilisation for hydrocarbons.

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, says “We need to know what is being proposed before we respond.” He asks what years of mining would be lost if the PEDLs were excluded from the proposed safeguarding area.

Sandy Telfer, for INEOS, says there is no reason for a potash safeguarding area, based on advice from the British Geological Survey.

“The problem we have here is that this policy is in effect a prohibition.”

Oil and gas companies would never be able to meet the test of  avoiding any impact on the potash resource, he says.

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, asks:

“If fracking from the surface is not going to take place in the national park, why would INEOS say it wants to frack in the national park?”

Andrew Batterton, of DPA,  INEOS’s lawyer says the definition of fracking could exclude initial exploratory work.

Sandy Telfer, for INEOS, says the extent of the potash safeguarding area is not decided and the current proposal from Sirius extends beyond the national park.

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, asks whether Sirius would agree not go into the PEDL areas.  He says this would still allow 50 years of potash extraction.

Sandy Telfer, for INEOS, says the company would accept this, without conceding the principle of safeguarding the potash industry.

Justin Gartland, of Sirius, says the company is prepared to discuss reviewing the size of the safeguarding area and the life of the planning permission for extraction. This will shrink the area but he predicts there will be some overlap with the northern PEDL. He says the company feels very strongly about the principle of safeguarding potash. He says the oil and gas companies will need to compromise too.

Alan Linn, for Third Energy, says his company  would object because it plans to move on this unconventional licence after it has got the Kirby Misperton fracking up and running.

Sandy Telfer, for INEOS, proposes a revision to the plan that would allow oil and gas to take priority over potash in some locations.

Justin Gartland, for Sirius,  says  it is wrong to say potash  does not have national importance. It appears only in this location, he says. It has planning permission. It had to meet the test of major development in a national park and is approved by the Secretary of State. The resource is scarce and has global interest. It can only be described as nationally important, he says. It is completely unacceptable to us that gas trumps potash in this particular area, he adds.

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, urges both INEOS and Sirius to “get real” about the areas they are talking about.

The inspector, Elizabeth Ord, suggests there may be an area of overlap for the two minerals. Justin Gartland, for Sirius, says this would be in the national park.

Chris France, for the authorities, says oil and gas development, conventional or unconventional, is a major development and would be allowed only in exceptional circumstances.

“INEOS need to get real about where they are going to be allowed to drill”.

The inspector, Elizabeth Ord, asks what is the intention of the industry. in this area

Alan Linn, for Third Energy, says it may consider drilling under the national park from offshore. There is conventional potential in that area, the says. The PEDL is in the early stage of exploration, he says.

The inspector, Elizabeth Ord, suggests there may not be much scope for agreement.

1.16pm Break

The hearing breaks until 2pm

1.11pm Proposed protected areas

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, says most of the protected areas in the plan are not disputed, including national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty.

He says the plan also includes scheduled monuments, registered battlefield, listed historic parks and gardens, and the historic setting of York. He says these have been included through the sustainability appraisal process. These protected areas are beyond those in national legislation.

Mr Lyness says the legislation provides for protecting historic assets. York is the obvious area that should be included, he says.

Ken Cronin, for the industry, says he has no comment on the specific proposed areas.

Elizabeth Ord says she is satisfied, subject to the removal of a “stifling effect”, she is happy to leave this policy as written.

11.54am Fracking in protected areas

The North Yorkshire authorities want to exclude fracking operations on the surface in listed protected areas. Sub-surfaces operations would be allowed where it can be shown that impacts would not cause significant harm to the protected areas. The protected areas go beyond those in national legislation.  There is some flexibility that would allow for surface conventional operations in the protected areas.

Elizabeth Ord, the inspector, says she is interested in the issue of extending the protected areas beyond those in national legislation.

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, says the government has already established a principle of extending the list of protected area beyond those in the Infrastructure Act by including sites of special scientific interest in its surface regulations on fracking.

He says is is appropriate to extend the list where protection is needed and support already exists for it.

Ken Cronin, for the industry, says operators accept there should be no shale development in national parks, AONBs and European protected sites. But he says restrictions do no need to be extended further than this. He says the plan’s definition of fracking extends into conventional development. Extending the list of protected areas referred to in legislation is not justified.

Mr Lyness says there is no marked difference at the surface in impact between shale gas fracking and other forms of fracking activity.

Mr Cronin says the authorities should be dealing with this on a case-by-case basis using the existing guidance.

Ms Ord asks what the difference would be in land use planning terms between fracking under the Infrastructure Act and hydraulic fracturing not covered by this definition.

Mr Cronin says the land use planning impacts are all the same. There will be different volumes of fluid. The government does not believe there is any need to go beyond the Infrastructure Act. The authorities have not justified a need, he says.

If the land use planning is the same, Ms Ord asks, does it not follow that hydraulic fracturing not covered by the act should also be protected in the same way.

Catherine Howard, a lawyer for the industry, says there is no hard and fast distinction between hydraulic fracturing and operations using higher volumes. She says the government has consulted on the issues and it would be unhelpful to extend the list of protected areas.

Ms Ord asks again what the impact differences would be between high volumes and mini fracks.

Ms Howard says there could be a mini-frack with a very limited surface impact that would be caught by these restrictions. She calls this a blunt tool.

Ms Ord asks about a mini-frack and should there be flexibility for small-scale operations.

Alan Linn, for Third Energy, says one of the KM8 fractures would exceed 1,000m3, a limit in the Infrastructure Act. We are dealing with a large volume of water going on and off the site. There are pumps and sand silos on the site. That is a modest test frack, he says, that historically would not be included as hydraulic fracturing because the total is under 10,000m3.

He says conventional carbonate reservoirs that need acid processing. You might need 2-3m3 but the same process is followed, though much smaller volumes.

Mr Linn in the horizontal wells, there may be 2km of pipe. Each one of those fractures could be above 1000m3. You would have a lot of liquid, he says. He adds that a distinction should be made between exploration, appraisal and production. He says everything is being treated as a big development in the plan. We will never get the big development

“We are moving towards a ban in this area in the plan as it stands at the moment.

“On the compromises we have made already, the salami slices we have gone through, have had a big effect towards prohibition.

“We don’t think it is sound.”

Scott Lyness says the authorities do not see it as a ban. He says they can see little distinction between the surface impacts of conventional and unconventional oil and gas developments. He is proposing a modification but is not satisfied there should be further flexibility.

Mr Cronin says the modification does not allay concerns. He says the plan is adding restrictions onto government policy. We now have a definition that includes everything so we will not physically be able to work within the plan.

The submission of a planning application is a significant way down the process. We spend a lot of money on surveys. The plan is so restrictive that it will stop this happening too.

Ms Ord says she is content with the plan’s definition of hydraulic fracturing. She says she does not want to stifle the industry.

“The plan is to give qualified support while protecting the environment and residents.

Should there be flexibility for mini-fracks, she says, beyond what the authorities have proposed where the land use impact is lesser.

Sandy Telfer, of INEOS, proposes a volume definition. Ms Ord says this is going backwards. She asks for a form of words to accommodate smaller fractures.

Catherine Howard says the surface impacts will vary by case. This should be looked at through the environment impact assessment regulations.

Ms Ord says this issue has already been discussed. You said this could stop pre-application work with low impact, she says. She says she is looking for a form of words to allow the industry to prove there would not be unacceptable impact from mini-fracks.

Vicky Perkin, for North Yorkshire County Council, says mini-fracks are to test the pressure at which the rocks would frack. They would proceed a main frack job, she says.

Rob Smith, for the authorities, says there may be circumstances for the conventional gas industry to be more flexible. Modified wording is proposed to deal with this, he says, in very sensitive protected areas.

Ms Ord says we are talking about very very sensitive areas. She asks the industry: Are you talking about hydraulic fracturing in these areas? Are you saying that the level of protection sought by the councils would have an unreasonable impact on the industry?

Mr Cronin says we have conventional sites in national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty already.

Ms Ord says the authorities have accepted this.

Mr Cronin says the industry has a problem with the “exceptional circumstances” test.

Mr Lyness says the wording does not include “exceptional circumstances” . He says the authorities recognise that where a proposal would not have an unacceptable impact the policy would not be applied for conventional operations. This could include fracking in conventional.

Ms Ord says something is needed to be added to policy, rather than supporting test.

Kit Bennett, for Frack Free York, says the Kirby Misperton site could not be described as a minor development. We have seen major movements equipment and an extension to the use of the well pad. Even below the volumes of fluid in the Infrastructure Act, it would still result in major development. It would have to be subject to a very rigorous test.

Katie Atkinson, for Frack Free Ryedale supports the authorities’ proposed modification. North Yorkshire is littered with protected areas. It is unfortunate for the industry that this is where the Bowland Shale is found but these areas should be protected.

Mr Cronin says the government has made clear that there was no need to go further than current legislation and regulations. This is another restriction, he says.

Mr Lyness says there is a difference between surface and sub-surface proposals. The sub-surface would allow operations if they could be shown to avoid significant harm. How could that be objectionable, he says.

Ms Ord asks the industry where operators would seek surface development. Adrian Linn, of Third Energy, says it depends where they want to explore. Micro-seismic monitoring equipment would be on the surface. There is a lot of transitory equipment, he says.

Ms Ord asks whether there is a need to distinguish between temporary monitoring equipment. Mr Linn says the plan is becoming increasingly prescriptive and the industry is becoming boxed in. We would rather see something that is enabling where we can work with the council. Ms Ord asks whether flexibility is needed to allow this.

Mr Cronin says there a lot of exceptional circumstances and he is happy to provide a list, which might be quite long. Ms Ord says a list isn’t needed. She says she is trying to avoid stifling the industry.

Chris France says the example given by Mr Linn is permitted development. Mr Lyness says he will look at any exceptions not included by permitted development. Ms Ord says it is a matter of not stifling the industry. She invites the industry to go back to the council with its ideas.

Catherine Howard repeats the industry regards the 500m is unsound and would be legally-challengeable at judicial review.

Lynn Calder, of INEOS, says a 500m buffer zone is a sterilisation approach. She says:

“This is a ban by any other name”.

The inspector says she is regularly threatened with legal action..

11.33am Break

The session resumes at 11.45am

11.10am Definition of hydraulic fracturing

The authorities are proposing a different definition of the process than the Infrastructure Act, which is based on volume. The minerals plan proposes to use a definition of any operation resulting in opening or extending fractures in rock.

171128 Kirby Misperton KMPC

Workover at Kirby Misperton KM8 well, 28 November 2017. Phot

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, says the KM8 experience has shown that fracking work could be taking place in the area which does not technically mean associated fracking (under the act) but has similar land use implications.  The KM8 operation would not be classed as associated fracking because the volumes are below the limit. We don’t think the volume limit should justify a different approach to land use.

Rob Smith, for the authorities, suggests a modification to bring the proposed wording inline with minerals planning practice guidance. Mr Smith says there are potential for proposals for fracking that do not meeting the limit under the act. It is not appropriate to rely on the definition in the act.

Ken Cronin, for the industry, says the government has clarified the definition to include 1,000m3 at any stage, not at all stages. This included KM8 and required KM8 to go through the approval process. The government is clear that the restrictions do not need to be extended. Mr Cronin says there are already mechanisms in place. There is no need to redefine operations.

Elizabeth Ord says there are two different issues. One is about land use planning and the other is the Infrastructure Act. She asks Mr Cronin whether the authorities’ approach is unsound on land use impacts and then says:

“I don’t think their approach is unsound”.

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, says the Infrastructure Act was developed for a different purpose. Government regulations since then have not changed the authorities’ arguments. We are concerned about applications coming forward that would have land use implications but would not meet the definition. We are not trying to redefine but to come up with a policy based on experience in this region.

Alan Linn, of Third Energy, says the definition in the policy has very little to do with hydraulic fracturing.

Catherine Howard, a lawyer for the industry, says it opposes any deviation from the national definition. The land use impacts should be best done through the environmental impact assessment

Paul Andrews, of Malton Town Council, says using the Infrastructure Act it would allow companies to get round restrictions in the N York Moors National Park.

Elizabeth Ord says

“I am happy that the council’s definition doesn’t go along with the 2015 act”

Ms Ord says any definition used in the plan could not be used outside the plan. She suggests some clarification that it is for use only in the plan.

Katie Atkinson, for Frack Free Ryedale supports this suggestion.

Cllr John Clark, for Ryedale Liberals, says the plan definition does not refer to “hydraulic” and there should be a reference to liquid.

Alan Linn, for Third Energy, suggests the insertion of “hydraulic pressure”. The authorities has proposed removing this words “hydraulic pressure”. Scott Lyness, for the authorities, says the key point is that there is no distinction in land use planning terms between fracking operations that don’t meet the associated fracking limit and those that do.

The inspector says the proposed definition is sound as it was original written.

11.03am “Major development”

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, says they have moved back from the assumption that all oil and gas drilling would be regarded automatically as “major developments”. This would be considered on a case by case basis, he suggests.

Elizabeth Ord, the inspector, says she is content with this change.

10.14am 500m buffers

Kirby Misperton

The plan proposes to permit developments within 500m of sensitive receptors only in exceptional circumstances.

Inspector Elizabeth Ord says she agrees that there could significant impacts within 500m of receptors and there are unknowns. But she asks if the industry can mitigate to an acceptable level within 500m how is the policy sound?  “Exceptional circumstances” is a very high bar, she says. She suggests an alternative phrase: “must be robustly demonstrated”.

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, accepts the point on “exceptional circumstances” but endorses point that a 500m buffer is designed to introduced flexibility. They have proposed new wording requiring a high level of protection.

Ken Cronin, for the industry body, UKOOG, says the 500m figure has not been justified by the minerals plan. There are already adequate protections for noise and landscape for everyone in existing planning guidance. It is much more complex than 500m figure would suggest.

Catherine Howard, of Herbert Smith Freehills, says impacts will depend on existing noise and light. 500m would make no different to some homes in locations next to a busy road, for example, she suggests. We feel it is a flawed approach, she says. It would be “a wholly erroneous” test. We are confused about what is meant by a “high level protection”, she says.

Cllr John Clark, for Ryedale Liberals, says 500m is very simple. He cannot understand the industry’s confusion. Mr Clark says if the industry wants to work with the local community then the idea of fracking happening where people live because it is already noisy is the wrong way round. At least people have a clear definition.

Matthew Dale-Harris, Friends of the Earth, says the concern of the industry is unjustified. He argues that the precautionary principle applies because of health concerns about the emerging industry.  The industry should be held to a higher standard and a higher levels of standard need to apply.

Christopher Stratton, for south Hambleton villages, says 500m is little more than a quarter of a mile. We are not happy about the test of a high level of protection because it is vague, he says. He proposes a return to a test of exceptional circumstances.

“We cannot envisage any circumstances where less than 500m would be acceptable. Do not apply to 500m as a guide – it is a fundamental principle. This is crucial to us”.

Cllr Paul Andrews, for Malton Town Council, says there has been no discussion about air emissions from shale gas sites. Homes should be a long area away from these emissions. He says 500m is far too small. There should be a bigger distances between shale gas sites and properties. You cannot deal with this issues by conditions, he says. He urges the inspector to stick to the “exceptional circumstances” test and adopt a large distance of one or two miles.

Kit BennettFrack Free York, supports a 500m distance on public health grounds and the precautionary principle. The industry has been shown to have severe adverse impacts in other countries, he says.

180308 Pickering Alan Linn 15Alan Linn, of Third Energy (right), says the industry’s intention is to minimise the impact on the surface to do most of the work underground. The shale gas is not everywhere in Ryedale or the N York Moors.

“A  500m buffer zone is basically a sterilisation zone. The effect of the plan is to stop the development of unconventional hydrocarbons. I have a major concern about this approach.

“All the legislation exists and we have a gold standard for regulation”

The regulators take account of all the concerns discussed here, he says.

“We are bolting on a new set of principles onto existing legislation.

“When you draw a 500m radius around the properties in the area we propose to develop it doesn’t leave much space left.”

We are trying to do everything correctly, he says. The bolt-ons detract from what exists already.

Katie Atkinson, for Frack Free Ryedale supports the 500m distance as a minimum. The industry should be able to extract from a 1km radius.

Scott Lyness, for the authorities, says the supporting text could include the words “an appropriately high level of protection. Inspector Elizabeth Ord says she does not want to create sterilisation. Mr Lyness the authorities want to allow the industry to be able to demonstrate impacts can be mitigated to an acceptable level. Ms Ord suggests the authorities come up with new wording.

Catherine Howard, of Herbert Smith Freehills, says regardless of the wording, the 500m is a higher test than national planning policy. The purpose of policy is not to flag to developers or residents it will be harder to meet the tests. It is a matter for each developer to make the case in those circumstances, she says. I don’t think it is sound for a higher legal test to apply with an arbitrary limit of 500m, she says.

Ms Ord asks about buffer zones in other mineral developments. She also asks for the unknown industry and a community that is concerned about developments.

Ms Howard says any application will be carefully scrutinised. If the impacts are unacceptable they should be refused. There is no need for a blanket policy with an arbitrary limit, she says. She says she can’t comment on other forms of mineral buffer zones.

Ms Ord says:

“We have a situation with a new industry and a lot of fear about it. I accept that fear should not make planning policy but the precautionary principle is well established and there is justification of treading carefully in the first five years of the plan.”

The plan will be reviewed in five years. There needs to be some safeguarding but it needs flexibility within it, Ms Ord says.

“I am trying to get wording that will allow flexibility but also give some comfort to the residents and satisfy the precautionary principle.”

Ms Howard says:

“The precautionary principle does not apply here.

Chris France, for the authorities, says the government’s documents on shale gas have many references to the precautionary principle. The government has banned fracking in protected areas. He says he doesn’t know what part of national policy that the industry thinks the 500m buffer is in conflict with. He says the NPPF allows local councils to introduce environmental criteria.

Ms Ord

“I am satisfied that there should be a 500m buffer, or whatever you want to call it.”

She calls on the authorities to come up with a wording that allows the industry to develop if it can demonstrate robustly impacts would be acceptable.

ken-cronin10.09am Conventional vs unconventional

Ken Cronin, of UK Onshore Oil and Gas, (left) the industry body, says the industry distinguishes only between conventional and unconventional geologies, not operational techniques. He says many aspects of the operations are the same, regardless of the geologies.

Elizabeth Ord, the inspector, says things are uncertain at present as the shale industry develops. If the industry can demonstrate in future that the split is not justified it can be reviewed in five years. She says:

“I am content to leave the plan as it is at this point in time.”

Mrs Ord says the West Sussex Minerals Plan has different policies for conventional and unconventional.

Catherine Howard, of Herbert Smith Freehills, says the industry is content with the West Sussex plan.

Mrs Ord says she is content with the North Yorkshire policy on this issue.

10am Session underway

Inspector Elizabeth Ord opens today’s hearing.

Reporting from this event has been made possible by individual donations from DrillOrDrop readers.

Categories: Regulation

37 replies »

  1. The industries desperate attempts to develop within 500 metres and keep the definition of fracking, which was conveniently slipped into the infrastructure act, related to the amount of fluids used, puts a spotlight on the realities of the industry.

    Community engagement is a total charade

    They pretend to listen and when found out for what they really are apply the bully boy tactics.

    Their objections to reasonable and rational proposals brings them out in the open for all to see.

    Forced transparency will only do the industry harm and create more opposition.

  2. The volume of water is only part of problem. There is no justification in saying that using lesser amounts solves the problems that occurred at Preese Hall.

    Fracking is fracking

    The size, rate, and type of induced seismicity would therefore be dependant on

    1) Rate and amount of fluid injected
    2)Orientation of the stress field relative to the pore pressure increase
    3)Extent of the fault system
    4) Deviatoric stress field in the subsurface

    Click to access 5055-preese-hall-shale-gas-fracturing-review-and-recomm.pdf

    Page 10 4-3

  3. The planning system is supposed to be flexible and look at actual impacts. A house could be behind a hill or other obstruction and not be bothered by the rig. Other geographical peculiarities could mean there would be no need for this. It would depend on the situation. Thats why there is no need for a blanket ban. Planning law can take account of that. The only serious issue would be noise for instance. (Air pollution is a trivial issue. Thats what the regulators and EIAs say anyway.

    Supposing there was a single house 100m away but the owner/occupier was happy to be rehoused for the drilling, or given some other inducement or compensation? Or was deaf??!! and didnt care?

    Suppose the drilling silencing was so good that you could barely hear it, (as is the case at PNR).

    In the US they have drilled right next to houses and there have been no serious problems. The owner will probably have been well compensated tho. I think most would put up with a bit of hassle for a suitable payment.
    People who live close to quarrying developments have to put up with loads of truck movements with zero compensation.

    I really dont see the point of this.

    • ‘Or was deaf??!! and didn’t care?’ I cannot believe you actually think this KW. What has deafness got to do with not wanting a dirty polluting industry next to your home; my flabber is ghasted yet again by your trivialization of the effects on people and your desperation to pollute the Earth.

    • Air pollution is not a trivial issue. It is a major public health issue, and alongside noise the biggest impact within 500m.

  4. Don’t just threaten do it. This nonsense about 500m will not hold up at a JR. Inspectors and councilors are increasingly left wing NIMBYs that are anti business and development. The areas that the industry want to development need new faces anyway so we’ll be doing them a big favor. The Last of The Summer Wine was a depressing programme but these locals are the same characters.
    Luckily Ineos have the cash to get all the legislation we need through the courts to bypass this mid level bureaucracy.

    • GottaBJoking so now the Planning Inspectorate, a Government department, are left wing NIMBYs are they?. By your assessment anyone who disagrees with a rabid right wing capitalist at all cost regardless of the impact view point is a left wing NIMBY snowflake. A smidge totalitarian don’t you think?

      • You are a little snowflake and you know it. Ord is towing a leftie stance and just because she has HM in title doesn’t fool anyone that’s pro capitalism. She isn’t the first Inspector to demonstrate an anti development position lately. This doesn’t surprise me with May at the helm.

  5. So GBK, all must fall before the wishes of an industry submerged in it’s own self importance? Who are you to say who should live where and pass judgement on peoples character? Fortunately our communities have a sense of self worth and are standing up to such imbecilic arguments as yours.

  6. Competing for best quote “Ineos have the cash to get all the legislation we need through the courts ” (GBK) – Corruption allegations anyone? As a satirist once said “England has the best law that money can buy”.

    • Oh look it’s more lefty conspiracy plots. What I mean Philip is that there is a higher level of intelligence in the High Court. The only issue is you need cash to get there.
      You best get crowdfunding.

      • why would we need to crowd fund a challenge against the Planning Inspectorate??? They are funded by Government.

  7. Seems a lot of confusion between Sirius and the frackers. As Sirius have decades of material to go at, surely it would be quite simple to time both industries so that one has done what it needs in an area and then the other can take over where their interests overlap? Alternatively, with Sirius some years away from production accelerate the fracking!

    • Martin
      I agree. Potash mining and fracking ( the HVHP stuff ) can be sorted as was coal mining and oil production in the East Midlands. In the past this would be sorted out via the professional bodies. Ho hum.

      Likewise the bit about potash and Third Energy ( mining Potash above a high H2S reservoir ) is an engineering issue.

      But for pint together in Pickering pre chit chat, they should have sorted it out.

  8. This wouldn’t be the same Stuart Perigo, ex planning officer for Lancs County Council, who recommended approval of the PNR site which was thrown out by the Councillors?

    If it is and you hear him start talking about moving bus stops to accommodate the industry as a diversionary tactic don’t be alarmed. He has tried that before……

    It failed miserably last time.

  9. I think many pro fracking people are missing the legal points. Perhaps by choice because it suits their case. The 500m setback is not a blanket ban, it operates on the basis that the industry should endeavour to locate surface development at least 500m away from dwellings and if industry wants to develop within 500m it must demonstrate a high level of mitigation in order to afford appropriate protection residents. If the industry cannot operate on this basis then one must seriously question whether it is suitable to operate in the U.K.

    Wind turbines have a 550m setback in certain circumstances. But it isn’t just noise where fracking is concerned. There are numerous studies linking fracking to negative health impacts and the joint NERC study concluded further research on health impacts is required. There is also the traffic, risk of explosion, uncontrolled/accidental emissions. The industry in the U.K. is in its infancy in terms of data, so taking this into account, why would anyone object to a precautionary approach in terms of public health and well-being?

    As for the spat with Sirius, the comments by INEOS came across like those of a spoilt child. Trying to claim that there should be a decision as to whether “we” want potash or shale and that the huge multi billion pound Sirius mining development, the largest natural polyhaylite site in the WORLD, is only of local importance is just laughable. INEOS clearly don’t like it when they are faced with a powerful opponent that also has deep pockets and won’t be bullied.

    If INEOS and Co choose to apply for a JR on the 500m setback that is of course their legal right but I’m not sure they will be successful? There is a compelling case for a minimum setback distance especially when it is not even a complete ban. There are examples across the world where similar or larger setbacks operate, which are mandatory and without flexibility.

    I think this is a great victory for North Yorkshire and as the industry has constantly claimed it can operate in the U.K, with minimum disruption and without negatively impacting the landscape, one could be forgiven for wondering why this Plan would cause the industry any difficulties whatsoever!

    • Kat
      I agree
      500m is a good setback distance, so long as it’s not a rule ( for reasons discussed ) ie it’s more an ACOP requirement. However, taking a protractor and prescribing 1km circles shows there are few areas where less than 500m exist, hence the industry concerns that it is a blanket ban, or that all applications will come under the rule and hence it is the norm, rather than the exception, ( as 1-2 km certainly is ).

      You are right vs INEOS, they need to chill somewhat re Potash Mining and vica versa. There is only one potash mine applied for, but lots of areas with shale gas. It’s an engineering issue.

    • Thanks for raising the tone, KatT. I am opposed to fracking anywhere but believe that if we are to be bullied into it in any case, precautions such as those Ms. Ord is minded to allow in the Plan are essential measures and should not prove too problematic for an industry with deep pockets if it can overcome determined reasoned opposition and local democracy. Working within these constraints might allow the industry to demonstrate the integrity of its claim to work with and for communities, a claim increasingly hollow given the spoilt-brat “we’ll challenge your decision legally” outburst we were treated to at the hearing.

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