Legal

Ineos accuses Scottish Government of “Alice in Wonderland” approach to fracking policy

Tom Pickering Operations Director INEOS Shale

Tom Pickering, Operations Director of Ineos Shale. Photo: Ineos

Ineos said today it was astonished to learn that the Scottish Government claimed it had not issued a ban on fracking in Scotland.

In a statement marking the end of its judicial review hearing in Edinburgh, the company described “an Alice-in-Wonderland situation” where businesses needed to go to court to verify announcements made in the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood.

Ineos Shale and Reach Coal Seam Gas have claimed undisclosed damages over what they argue is the unlawful Scottish Government decision on fracking.

The Scottish Government told the Court of Session on Tuesday that it had continued the existing moratorium on unconventional oil and gas, rather than imposing a ban.

At today’s hearing, the government’s lawyer, James Mure QC, said a strategic environmental assessment into the policy was now underway. This would be followed by a business and regulatory impact assessment and consultation before a final decision was made.

Gerry Moynihan QC, for the companies, said the court needed to look at what had been said in the statement to Parliament in October 2017. When the moratorium was announced this was described as “an effective ban”, he said.

Ministers decided to impose a ban, realised they did not have the powers under the Scotland Act, and used planning powers as a means to an end, which was a ban, Mr Moynihan added.

This afternoon, Tom Pickering, Operations Director of Ineos Shale, said:

“We came to the Court of Session to review the Scottish Government’s position on onshore unconventional Oil and Gas development in Scotland.

“We were astonished to learn during proceedings that the Scottish Government claims that it has not issued a ban on fracking in Scotland, and indeed there may never be one.

“The position of the Scottish Government that has now been stated in court represents a staggering U-turn on the policy direction announced by the Energy Minister during Parliamentary debate in October last year, and by the First Minister when she said in Parliament ‘Scotland should welcome the fact that fracking in Scotland is banned’.

“The Scottish people and Parliament may find this revelation barely believable, when the Government has repeatedly told Holyrood that there is an effective and immediate ban.

“The developments during the Judicial Review process undermine the statements made by Ministers and cast further uncertainty and ambiguity across the policy framework for onshore unconventional oil and gas development in Scotland. We took Ministers and the Government at their word.

“Sadly we seem to have reached the Alice-in-Wonderland situation where a business has to go to the Scottish courts to establish whether announcements in Holyrood can be taken at face value.  As a result there is now an unpredictable and uncertain environment for business in Scotland.  Jobs rely on investment, but there is precious little in Scotland at the present time. The current situation makes it harder than ever for business to invest in Scotland for the long term.”

A spokesman for the Scottish Government said in a statement this afternoon:

“The Scottish Government’s preferred position is that it does not support the development of unconventional oil and gas.

“As we have made clear, this position is subject to a Strategic Environmental Assessment. It remains inappropriate to comment further during the judicial review process.”

Friends of the Earth Scotland was given a rare permission to intervene in the case. The campaign organisation argued that the Scottish Government must ban fracking to meet its obligations under the Paris climate treaty.

The judge in the case, Lord Pentland, reserved judgement to a future date.

Links to DrillOrDrop reports

Day 1: Court urged to dismiss Ineos challenge to Scottish fracking moratorium

Day 2: When is a ban not a ban? 

 

78 replies »

  1. If it wasn’t so serious a subject, you’d think INEOS were writing the script for the next episode of Yes Prime Minister.

    Admitting that they didn’t know there was a moratorium and not a ban in place in Scotland says a lot for their level of research. Or maybe they are just victims of their own propaganda? Presumably that alone is enough to have this thrown out of court.

    • Interesting turn of phrase; perhaps they have been reading ‘shalewatcher’ on drill or drop; or perhaps?

    • Talk about walking around with your blinkers on! You lot really can’t compute much in those little brains of yours can you?

        • Perhaps that should be that time honoured and renowned cultural heritage tradition of temperance temperance?

      • Definition of ‘moratorium’ a temporary prohibition of an activity.

        Definition of ‘ban’ officially or legally prohibit

        Ineos had to go all the way to court to be told the difference

        Talk about walking around with your head in the clouds

    • Thanks Ruth, perhaps the enormous header photo of Tom Pickering is indicative of the monumental (i use the word advisedly) eco (like ego but less offensive?) of ineos and their faux pas in identifying their chosen target?

      Since we seem to be in literary fiction mode

      As regards their accusation that the Scottish government are operating an “Alice In Wonderland” policy towards fracking, then perhaps the answer to that is that ineos are operating a “Malice In Blunderland” policy towards the democratic Scottish government?

      No doubt Ineos would perhaps like to operate a “Malice Through The Fracking Gas” policy towards the Scottish population in general?

      Perhaps a (slightly altered) reference to “A UnRemorseful Apology” by Robert Burns
      would be a suitable answer to that derog a tory remark by Tom Pickering?

      The friend whom, wild from Wisdomâs way,
      The fumes of wine infuriate send,
      (Not moony madness more astray)
      Who but deplores that hapless friend?

      Thine was thâ insensate frenzied part,
      Ah! why should I such scenes outlive?
      Scenes so abhorrent to my heart!
      ‘Tis thine to pity and forgive.

      Than that curiously English reference from the works of Charles Lutwidge Dodgson?

      Or better still, this:

      For a’ that and a’ that by Robert Burns

      Is there, for honest Poverty
      That hings his head, and a’ that;
      The coward-slave, we pass him by,
      We dare be poor for a’ that!
      For a’ that, and a’ that,
      Our toils obscure, and a’ that,
      The rank is but the guinea’s stamp,
      The Man ‘s the gowd for a’ that. –

      What though on hamely fare we dine,
      Wear hoddin grey, and a’ that.
      Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine,
      A Man ‘s a Man for a’ that.
      For a’ that, and a’ that,
      Their tinsel show, and a’ that;
      The honest man, though e’er sae poor,
      Is king o’ men for a’ that. –

      Ye see yon birkie ca’d, a lord,
      Wha struts, and stares, and a’ that,
      Though hundreds worship at his word,
      He ‘s but a coof for a’ that.
      For a’ that, and a’ that,
      His ribband, star and a’ that,
      The man of independant mind,
      He looks and laughs at a’ that. –

      A prince can mak a belted knight,
      A marquis, duke, and a’ that;
      But an honest man ‘s aboon his might,
      Gude faith he mauna fa’ that!
      For a’ that, and a’ that,
      Their dignities, and a’ that,
      The pith o’ Sense, and pride o’ Worth,
      Are higher rank than a’ that. –

      Then let us pray that come it may,
      As come it will for a’ that,
      That Sense and Worth, o’er a’ the earth
      Shall bear the gree, and a’ that.
      For a’ that, and a’ that,
      Its comin yet for a’ that,
      That Man to Man the warld o’er,
      Shall brothers be for a’ that.

      But i guess such poetry is lost on the narrow minded greed and avarice that makes such derog a tory remarks in the first place?

      i did enjoy that!

  2. Well Mark, when SNP ministers say it is a ban repeatedly and there are records of that, and they run the Scottish Government, I think you will find that “research” does rely upon the truth being told.
    You are wrong to presume. This has not been thrown out of court-judgement has been reserved to a future date. Lord Pentland will now probably need to take some tea with the Mad Hatter to determine why it might be deemed okay to mislead Parliament, the Scottish people and one of the largest investors into the Scottish economy.

    Off (with) their heads!

    • Good article GBK I’ve worked off Scotland oil, gas and renewables

      The article touches on missed opportunity with regards to wind turbines and I agree. The turbines I helped install offshore was funded by Norway, Norwegian steel, Spanish blades and German power generation with an international team. Scotland provided the Seabed… The U.K subsidies going to Norway…

      Offshore wind subsidies end this year as the Government stated would happen in 2013.

      Scotland has some of the finest oil and gas workers in the World. It is criminal that the SNP lied to everybody shutting the door on an industry that has these kind of workers who would be a phenomenal asset to leading the World in this industry

      The amateurish way the SNP has conducted itself not only damages the party but the people of Scotland through lost investment not just from this industry…

      Sad for Scotland…

  3. When I voted for Ruth D. not our resident journalist Ruth I made an error. Although the SNP are a basket case party full of people that would never achieve positions greater than low level management in the ‘real’ world they are still better than little Patrick Harvie and his communist party aka The Greens. Unfortunately by not getting a majority last time around the SNP have to lube up and bend over for Patrick and his infantile politics.
    Try not moderate my posts too much as you’re killing my tone of distaste of politics and ideology that would ultimately see the UK plunder at an even quicker rate than it is currently.
    I’m your resident Scot so I’ll keep you all updated on the true picture north of the border!

      • I haven’t looked into this in any detail but aren’t we just talking about a moratorium, which technically isn’t the same thing as a ban, but when no end point has been set then you might as well use the words interchangeably?

      • Perhaps GBH might recall some of “his” countries marvellous poetry that describes ineos and Tom Pickering’s “contribution” towards rational literary debate?
        Well there is no one more appropriate (slightly altered) than Robbie Burns is there?

        To a plastic yellow ineos hardhat found recently in a Scottish court room

        Whaur ye gaun, ye crowlin ferlie?
        Your impudence protects you sairly;
        I canna say but ye strunt rarely,
        Owre gauze and lace;
        Tho’, faith! I fear ye dine but sparely
        On sic a place.

        Ye ugly, creepin, blastit wonner,
        Detested, shunn’d by saunt an’ sinner,
        How daur ye set your fit upon her-
        Sae fine a lady?
        Gae somewhere else and seek your dinner
        On some poor body.

        Swith! in some beggar’s haffet squattle;
        There ye may creep, and sprawl, and sprattle,
        Wi’ ither kindred, jumping cattle,
        In shoals and nations;
        Whaur horn nor bane ne’er daur unsettle
        Your thick plantations.

        Now haud you there, ye’re out o’ sight,
        Below the fatt’rels, snug and tight;
        Na, faith ye yet! ye’ll no be right,
        Till ye’ve got on it-
        The verra tapmost, tow’rin height
        O’ Miss’ bonnet.

        My sooth! right bauld ye set your nose out,
        As plump an’ grey as ony groset:
        O for some rank, mercurial rozet,
        Or fell, red smeddum,
        I’d gie you sic a hearty dose o’t,
        Wad dress your droddum.

        I wad na been surpris’d to spy
        You on an auld wilie’s flainen toy;
        Or aiblins some bit dubbie boy,
        On’s wyliecoat;
        But Mister’ fine Lunardi! fye!
        How daur ye do’t?

        O Tommie, dinna toss your head,
        An’ set your beauties a’ abread!
        Ye little ken what cursed speed
        The blastie’s makin:
        Thae winks an’ finger-ends, I dread,
        Are notice takin.

        O wad some Power the giftie gie us
        To see oursels as ithers see us!
        It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
        An’ foolish notion:
        What airs in dress an’ gait wad lea’e us,
        An’ ev’n devotion!

        Marvelous little dismissal poem that isnt it?
        To the ineos’ of the world everywhere!

        Have a great day.

        [Typo corrected at poster’s request]

    • Didn’t notice you at Holyrood today GBH. I was there observing the summing up. Is the ‘real’ world you’re informing us about the one in your head? (noting the inverted commas).

  4. Reminds me of the Titanic!

    The usual suspects playing on in the band as the ship slips under the water. Entertaining, but will not stop the inevitable.

    Interesting how lies can be so easily accepted, as long as they further the cause. Good job Ruth works to a higher standard.

    • Och Awa wi’ ye pultroon! Ye poor wee, sleekit, cow’rin, tim’rous beastie ye!

      To A Scottish Mouse, On Being Turned Up Out Of Her Nest By The English Invading Greedy Anti Democratic Fracking Scowl!

      Wee, sleekit, cow’rin, tim’rous beastie,
      O, what a panic’s in thy breastie!
      Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
      Wi’ bickering brattle!
      I wad be laith to rin an’ chase thee,
      Wi’ murd’ring pattle!

      I’m truly sorry ineos’ hate full greed dominion,
      Has broken nature’s social union,
      An’ justifies that ill opinion,
      Which makes thee startle
      At me, thy poor, earth-born companion,
      An’ fellow-mortal!

      I doubt na, whiles, but thou may thieve;
      What then? poor beastie, thou maun live!
      A daimen icker in a thrave
      ‘S a sma’ request;
      I’ll get a blessin wi’ the lave,
      An’ never miss’t!

      Thy wee bit housie, too, in ruin!
      It’s silly wa’s the win’s are strewin!
      An’ naething, now, to big a new ane,
      O’ foggage green!
      An’ bleak Descendin’ winds ensuin,
      Baith snell an’ keen!

      Thou saw the fields laid bare an’ waste,
      An’ sneery drillers comin fast,
      An’ cozie here, beneath the blast,
      Thou thought to dwell-
      Till crash! the cruel coulter past
      Out thro’ thy cell.

      That wee bit heap o’ leaves an’ stibble,
      Has cost thee mony a weary nibble!
      Now thou’s turn’d out, for a’ thy trouble,
      But house or hald,
      To thole the winter’s sleety dribble,
      An’ cranreuch cauld!

      But, Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
      In proving foresight may be vain;
      The best-laid schemes o’ mice an ‘men
      Gang aft agley,
      An’lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain,
      For promis’d joy!

      Still thou art blest, compar’d wi’ me
      The present only toucheth thee:
      But, Och! I backward cast my e’e.
      On prospects drear!
      An’ forward, tho’ I canna see,
      I guess an’ fear!
      Ineos threat’s invade is clear in Scots protect’d Lands so dear!

      • I think JR will be “banning” the word “ban” from his frackie luvvie vocabulary from now on as it is fatally unlucky to be used in his lofty presence? Maybe JR will be calling it “The Scottish Nay World” from now on? And crying to his collapsing pack of marked cards,”yes” men minions:

        Off with their creds!

        Well here is Ian R Cranes video views today on just this Scottish issue and more:

        ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=918mxGONwJ8&feature=em-lbcastemail )

        As always laddies……
        Enjoy!
        Enjoy!

        • Ian R Crane? Total conspiracy [edited by moderator]

          I’ll have to watch his DVD this weekend

          BP Oil Spill, Population Reduction & The End of an Age – Ian R Crane

          Product description

          Was this outrageous ecological disaster the result of equipment failure, inadequate safety procedures, incompetent personnel … or something far more sinister? On April 19th 2010 Ian R Crane sent out a Newsletter warning his readers to ‘Stay Vigilant’ as he had a strong sense of foreboding that a ‘False Flag’ event was about to be unleashed. His intuition heightened by the knowledge that Waco, the Oklahoma City Bombing, Hitler’s Birthday & the Columbine High School massacre all occurred during the Festival of ‘Sacrifice by Fire’.Crane’s oilfield industry background enables him to apply forensic analysis to events leading up to the destruction of the Deepwater Horizon. Analysis which has enabled him to identify the individual who was ultimately responsible for what transpired and who must now be required to answer deep and probing questions regarding his allegiances outside of BP. Remarkably, Ian names the same individual described as a ’32 year old punk’ by Matthew Simmons, in an interview with Bloomberg TV just a few days before he was found dead in his hot tub!Not only does this disaster bear all the hallmarks of a contrived event; it is an event which will have long-lasting and far-reaching impact upon the lives of tens perhaps hundreds of millions of people. Whilst increasing numbers of people get sick in the Gulf Coast and the reports of ‘Crop Damage’ appear throughout the US, the British and European media leads the general public to believe that the oil has all but disappeared from the Gulf of Mexico and that the whole event was exaggerated by a US media, generating mass hysteria in a bid to demonise BP. However, it is imperative we consider the implications of the toxic Oil/Corexit mix entering the Gulf Stream and being transported around the Globe. Are we going to let the lunacy of the New World Order agenda unfold without challenge … or are we going to start taking responsibility for the future of Humanity and our planet?

          Ian primarily focused his attention on the geopolitical arena, but has a deep personal interest in folklore, mythology and the cosmological belief systems of ancient and indigenous cultures

          I think he got made bankrupt for his crazy antics

          [Edited by moderator]

          • Dear oh dear kish, you must be really desperate to assassinate Ian R Crane character?
            He must have really got to you to spend all this time trying to rubbish his character without even once trying to discuss anything Ian said in todays video?
            Perhaps you are upset he didn’t mention your alien friends or the Exxon mid Atlantic refuelling during the war? Oh well, never mind? Next time maybe?
            I think you are probably better off regurgitating endless fracking gas adverts? Much safer ground there?

            • His intuition heightened by the knowledge that Waco, the Oklahoma City Bombing, Hitler’s Birthday & the Columbine High School massacre all occurred during the Festival of ‘Sacrifice by Fire’.

              Ian R Crane, he sounds the perfect leader for the anti brigade…

              You follow this guy?

              [Edited by moderator]

              Meanwhile here on planet earth

              4.4% Gas 6.2% electricity increase in energy bills for over a million people. Not very nice relying on foreign Countries for our energy needs… So it goes with this increase more green tax paid…

              https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/npower-hikes-energy-bills-1-12516790

            • Dear me, you have got it bad kish? I can tell your not happy, never mind have a relaxing weekend and put you feet up on an alien.

              Would this have anything to do with the subject of the ineos blunder in the Scottish courts kish? You seem to have shot off on this wild tirade tangent to avoid actually discussing that at all? Funny that?

              Perhaps you are trying to divert away from that embarrassment and launch into a character assassination tirade instead? Ian just seemed a good target?

              Sad Kish, very sad.

              That does seem to be the first resort in such discussions from recent history?

              Kish you wouldn’t know planet earth if you lived on it, you certainly have no respect for it?

              Anyone who is willing to subject this earth and in particular the Scottish population to ineos’ poisonous fracking clearly has no scruples whatsoever?

              Perhaps it would be interesting to look at the works of some of your posted link authors? That might be interesting? They might reveal some of the type of stuff you fill your head with?

              Let’s see what eminent choice of quote you make shall we?

              The Daily Mirror? Really Kish? Seriously?

              Was that on page three?

              Dear me kish, didn’t they print a photo of a bus on the moon? And lots of mysterious mounds on mars? Your alien friends was it?
              Not to mention the mysterious mounds on page three?

              [Edited by moderator]

              Oops Kish! Hoist with your own conned vexed mirrored tabloid petard again?

              Never mind, no cigar today kish, try again when the methane wears off?

              Och thas no got a lotta sense in thy frackin’heed when ye tak a gud hard glint in’t ye ken kish?

              Such fun Kish, always a pleasure! Have a nice weekend.

    • What do you mean Martin?

      Just trying to understand why Phil C is posting links to somebody who is a conspiracy fantasist who jumps on every crazy train he can…

    • Did he fall or was he pushed martin?
      Now there is an age old question?
      Ask the police for their records on the event, or better still, watch the video?
      But you would have to giggle it?

  5. Kisheny-understand why and PhilC is something I gave up on a long time ago! I have found it better to filter certain posters, after true motivations are exposed. No need for me to go over the same ground again, but much of what is posted by some of the antis is simply to excite others, sometimes to incite others, and I prefer to concentrate upon those who try to make a valid argument. It saves a lot of time too, as there are not too many of them, and their posts are to the point.

    I think if you trawl back through Ruth’s previous articles focusing on KM, you will see a picture of a certain person climbing out of a ditch that he fell into. The anti gravity theory is it was police brutality that placed him there, others feel differently. Bit like the guard dogs were really on their way back from the sweet shop having wasted their hard earned wages on aniseed balls, so the poisoning attempt was self inflicted. Each can chose which they will find believable.

    • Thought you didn’t read anything I write martin? Oops! Your blinkers are showing again!
      Never mind martin, I know you love me really?

      • Well this is a giggle, but too far off beam of the Scottish Nay Word though? Can’t mention the “b” word or Jim will have to turn round three times and throw salt over his shoulder?

    • Cheers Martin. There are regular posters on here with a very narrow militant view

      I will be in Egypt next week working on gas production, the sad thing is some of it will find its way back here in the U.K via LNG. Crazy…

      Working all over the World in oil, gas and renewables I have seen more and more reliance on other Countries to provide our energy needs and the way our renewable subsidies are being syphoned off to foreign shores all in the name of Green energy

      People have become so blind to were their energy comes from is so dangerous and allows such false claims from green organisations that we just need more wind turbines. Such thinking would be a disasyer for the Country, ie Germany…

      Even though I shouldn’t reply to some posters [edited by moderator] I feel that if a person read this website for the first time, of course it is biased but by stating facts and not gibberish or poems the new undecided reader would be able to make their minds up by common sense

      Fortunately more facts are available now and support for U.K shale is rising

      Even high level politics are having trouble in Scotland, serious lies by the SNP unfortunately being pressured by the greens into Alice in Wonderland energy politics

      Thanks again Martin…

        • [Edited by moderator]

          If you guys cant argue anything rationally and are forced to resort to the industry standard black out frack out blinkers or just character attack anyone who threatens their own hackneyed narrow focus view? then that is not a problem, its sad, but not a problem?

          Have a good weekend and enjoy your time in Egypt.

          • What is it catchphrase corner

            Try

            We’re Backing Fracking!

            That’s the opinion of more and more people as you well know

            What’s booo?

            Barrels Of Oil One hundred $$$$$$$$$$

            You’ll be right soon enough…

        • Oh dear. Not a Robert Burns or poetry fan then Kish?

          Ooh be careful not to insult Robert Burns, he is a Scottish institution all by himself?

          Better not be rude calling Robert Burns poetry “gibberish”?

          That won’t win you or ineos any points in Scotland?

          Almost as bad as the Charles Dodgson insult?

          Tut tut!

      • ‘I will be in Egypt next week working on gas production, the sad thing is some of it will find its way back here in the U.K via LNG. Crazy…’

        If you do not agree with importing from Egypt, why are you doing this job? Surely you are part of your own perceived problem? it makes no sense. Stand by your convictions and withdraw your labour; your talents would be better used elsewhere.

  6. Have a safe time in Egypt, Kisheny.

    I note there are indications Israel could become a major exporter of gas in the future. That could change the landscape a bit! (Funny how new allies appear when gas/oil are found. Well, not really-always been the case.)

    I shall be looking out for the Times Rich List publication this weekend. Wonder where Jim will be this time? I suspect it could be Sir Jim soon as his spat with Nicola could seriously harm her, especially with more non SNP Scottish MPs in Westminster, and that would deserve a “reward”. If not then, perhaps a good Americas Cup performance will swing it? Some would speculate that both could be useful promotional elements for adding to the two thirds. Cynical or realistic?

      • Keep tapping the plastic keys churning out trash

        Gas powering 38% of your electric right now, don’t waste any more fossil fuels than you have to…

        • Dear oh dear kish, the only trash i see is being made by your industry? Plastics and toxic waste poisons that are choking and poisoning our land, air and water and ocean life and birds? And you want to impose that on Scotland too?

          Trash is as trash does.

          Try not to make any more trash and maybe we will begin to see this planet can actually recover from this fracking onslaught?

          • You do realise tapping away on your plastic keyboard is going to cost you more now that electric bills have gone up???

            • Perhaps you should address your own tapping proclivities kish?
              You do realise that your own tapping away to make these accusations simply condemns yourself by your own words? Quite literally in fact?

              A somewhat circular self condemning argument isn’t it ?

              Just like accusations of conspiracy theories from someone who reads the Daily Mirror?

              Mirrors simply reflect peoples own selves kish? It’s what they do, they can’t help it? Distorted or not?

              See Robert Burns quote.

    • Cheers Martin

      Sir Jim is a good call. Ineos a key element in Scottish GDP and Nicola lies like a school kid? The damage games like this could do to Scotland by The SNP could be catastrophic, the hundreds of £Millions needed in investment by these Companies, the risks involved are incredible
      The shame is when a small amount of Ludites complain about gas heating their homes in Winter and how a fantasy island is achievable powered by wind and Sun?

        • O wad some Pow’r the giftie gie us
          To see oursels as ithers see us!
          It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
          An’ foolish notion:
          What airs in dress an’ gait wad lea’e us,
          An’ ev’n devotion!

      • ‘Ludites’ another misquote…

        The Luddites feared that the time spent learning the skills of their craft would go to waste as machines would replace their role in the industry;

        So in 2018 this would transfer as ‘The oil and gas workers feared that the time spent learning their craft would go to waste as renewable energy generation would replace their role in the industry’.

        Your hatred of the next generation of power generation is apparent, formed from your fear of unemployment; understandable but does not justify you attacking those who wish to protect their way of life; inflicting a dirty industry next to their homes to keep you in the manner you have become accustomed to.

        We must all learn to embrace change; we should not fear it, but take it as a challenge.

        • You know I install offshore wind turbines Sher?

          What do you do for the environment? Wash your jam jars out before placing them in the blue bin???

            • ‘You know I install offshore wind turbines’ – this is what you tell us, but as I do not know you personally, I cannot know for sure 🙂

              The point of the post is to show you erroneous use of the term ‘ludite’, used by you in a derogatory way to describe the 85% who support renewables; but if you took a minute you would know that, wouldn’t you?

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