Regulation

Council leader says Surrey earthquake link to oil operations cannot be “completely ruled out”

180718 earthquake chart Stephen Hicks

Earthquake on 18 July 2018. Source: Dr Stephen Hicks

Mole Valley District Council has called for local oil and gas operations to stop  if they are implicated in the recent cluster of earthquakes in Surrey.

Vivienne Michael MVDC

Vivienne Michael

The area around Dorking served by the council has experienced 14 earthquakes since April 1 2018, after 50 years without any tremors.

Earlier this month a group of geologists called for a moratorium on oil and gas operations at  nearby sites at Brockham and Horse Hill.

In a statement, Vivienne Michael, leader of Mole Valley District Council, said the authority shared residents’ concerns and said “a link cannot be completely ruled out”.

She said:

“We have therefore been in touch with Surrey County Council (SCC), which is the mineral planning authority in this case, to ensure that they are aware of the level of concern and to urge them to take the necessary and appropriate action.”

The earthquake issue was discussed on 8 August 2018 when county councillors approved a part-retrospective planning application by Angus Energy for a disputed oil well at Brockham.

Mrs Michael said:

“Under National Planning Practice Guidance, the mitigation of seismic risk is one of the hydrocarbon issues that mineral planning authorities can leave to other regulatory regimes and we understand that SCC has been liaising with the Environment Agency, British Geological Survey, Health and Safety Executive and the Oil and Gas Authority as the main regulatory bodies involved.”

The Oil and Gas Authority (OGA) told DrillOrDrop it was “difficult to see how oil and gas activities in the area could be linked to these seismic events”.

180712 installing seismic monitors

Monitoring station installed in Surrey, 12 July 2018. Photo: Dr Stephen Hicks

Since the start of the earthquakes, the British Geological Survey (BGS) has installed five seismic monitoring stations in the area. But it is not yet able to say if there is a connection and there is also no timescale for its work.

Mrs Michael said:

“We are calling on the BGS and the OGA to clarify this and to take any further action necessary to ensure that, if drilling, re-injection and flow testing are implicated, these activities are curtailed or stopped completely and our residents’ concerns addressed.”

Reaction

The statement was welcomed by local people and residents’ groups.

Brockham resident, Ted Kral said:

“The ball is now most firmly in the Oil and Gas Authority’s court.

I cannot understand how this Authority, having granted a temporary nationwide moratorium in 2011, following a series of significantly smaller earthquakes associated with the Preese Hall fracking site in Lancashire, has not immediately put in place a similar moratorium on oil drilling, re-injection and flow testing until more is known on possible causal links between the hydrocarbon activities and the Surrey earthquakes. This is especially after four eminent academic geologists had called for such a moratorium.

“We very much appreciate the council getting involved and fully support their call for further investigation and clear timescales.

Ada Zaffina, of Brockham Oil Watch, said:

“MVDC’s position is representative of the concerns of the local people, and quite different from the approach taken by Surrey County Council’s planning authority during the recent meeting where permission was granted for controversial works at Brockham. SCC said that seismic risk was not a planning consideration and that it was outside of the jurisdiction of the local planning authority.

“We have now also asked for the available operational data for Brockham to be verified, and for detailed data held by the regulators and the operator to be released for independent analysis.”

James Knapp, of the Weald Action Group, said:

“The statement from MVDC reflects the concerns of many Surrey residents, and is very welcome. Local group A Voice For Leith Hill has seen unprecedented demand for its earthquake edition newsletter which went to a sixth reprint, showing how widespread public concern is.

“The call for a moratorium by four eminent hydrocarbon geologists and seismologists was based on the coincidence of timing, depth and location of the earthquakes with activities at Brockham and Horse Hill. This merits investigation, but the OGA is conflicted as it’s primary function is to promote the oil and gas industry.

“We are now at an an impasse. The BGS are doing their job, gathering and publishing data for others to analyse just as they did after the 2011 Preese Hall earthquakes, but no independent academic study can be made until Angus and UKOG release all borehole base pressure data and detailed logs of raw injection data including all depth, timing, quantity, pressure and fluid type.”

92 replies »

  1. Phil C
    No problem.

    Good you have found a website that looks at earthquakes.

    Some think it’s a good site, others that it is a bit flaky and relies on shock news to generate excitement ( hits ) and all a bit conspiracy theory.

    Re playing the man, and contradictory data, remember to read what I say, not what you think I said ( as I just pointed out it was worth looking at the website ).

    If you would like a discussion on the subject it needs defining, as I am au fait with plate tectonics, and have no disagreement with the theory ( since the apple skin theory was debunked prior to my education. )

    What seems less likely is the interpretation and likely mission creep.

    So…..do all wells cause seismic activity ( above that caused by the energy imparted by the drill bit ), I think not.

    Do all injection wells cause earthquakes .. nope

    Do some injection wells cause seismic activity…yes.

    You know how it is Phil, we start with specifics and then you ask people to contradict or provide evidence against something else similar to the subject.

    Mind you, drilling causes slip planes looks interesting. I think not, they are already there or are not? Discuss.

    • Interesting reply hewes62, I was more interested that instead of providing contrary evidence that refutes the data, you chose to find a debunk site to discredit the author. That was somewhat revealing of the motive behind that post. But like i said, i am sorry you were given that particular short straw, that cannot be pleasant?

      Of course it is a new science of interpreting the growing sets of the worldwide freely available seismic data and using that to attempt to predict earthquake events. You may notice that as others have failed to do, but would rather miss represent and twist anything said to push that entirely discredited “conspiracy theory” card.

      Regarding that accusation, it is the established agencies which should promote the growing new science of earthquake prediction, but far from becoming involved and producing their own analysis, they would prefer to reject any such suggestion by labelling anything that does not agree with the official dogma as “conspiracy theory”

      That is just a pathetic get out of jail free card of course and is never backed up with any proof, just empty rhetoric? If you read anything i reported, you may note that i make no claims other than what the provided analysis indicates. It is a pity that obstruction and obfuscation is preferable to open minded analysis, but that is not so unusual in academic circles is it?

      As for the accusation of “alarmist” and “irresponsibility” in reporting data, then that attitude is in itself curious and telling of an entirely reversed logic that now descends into farce? So much for freely available emergency measures that inform and put into place procedures that will save lives? Now the message from the industry is “don’t tell the public of the potential dangers and of emergency procedures because it may damage profits!” Pathetic and criminal isn’t it?
      But then perhaps the advice should be “don’t be scared, be prepared” not just in this but in every aspect of life, seems the only logical course of action to me and I am sure the local residents, schools and emergency services would say the same, if they were allowed to that is.

      So let us look at your list shall we?

      “If you would like a discussion on the subject it needs defining, as I am au fait with plate tectonics, and have no disagreement with the theory ( since the apple skin theory was debunked prior to my education. )”
      Answer: i did an Msci Geophys many moons ago for my degree, but more from a Civils point of view in the Analysis of Forces in Complex Structures which had the wonderful title of “Force Method Analysis of Indeterminate Structures”. So i am not unaware of the terminology of plate tectonics. I do maintain a fascination with geophysics as in all things. as for dutchsinse he is clearly a graduate and an enthusiast and such enthusiasm should be encouraged and supported, not debunked and buried as some would have it.

      “What seems less likely is the interpretation and likely mission creep.”
      Answer: And therein lies the rub so to speak, perhaps until the all the data is analysed and official models are drawn up then it will be advantageous to let those who have provided independent analysis to continue to refine their analysis then the final truth will out?

      “So…..do all wells cause seismic activity ( above that caused by the energy imparted by the drill bit ), I think not”.
      Answer: The word “think” is interesting? Perhaps the available data does not confirm that? And it rather depends upon the geological location of the well and what is the history, recorded under the “old permission” or the “new permission” requirements, or otherwise, of the activities at the well? Not a generalisation then is it, but specific to many factors.

      “Do all injection wells cause earthquakes .. nope”
      Answer: Where did i say they did? See above. But it is not exclusive is it? Yep.

      “Do some injection wells cause seismic activity…yes.”
      Answer: And reinjection of fluids into existing wells to reduce disposal by “secret” means and locations.

      “You know how it is Phil, we start with specifics and then you ask people to contradict or provide evidence against something else similar to the subject.”
      Answer: What is it you are you saying? Perhaps that more reveals and reflects something that your “colleagues” need to address?

      “Mind you, drilling causes slip planes looks interesting. I think not, they are already there or are not? Discuss.”
      Answer: I didnt say causes, i said that activities such as fracking and its associated avoidances of the word and injection and reinjection causes successive expansion and contraction of the target zone and the fluid lubricates the target zone. The results of that are unpredictable. Do you see how a little miss representation of anything said redefines the meaning?

      PS Thats your lot for a while, i have other things to concentrate on and spend my time on, have fun and a great Autumn and i would advise you to stand upwind of some of your fellow “contributors” at all times.

      • Gotta go but look at this dutchsinse report from 23 minutes on Europe and UK, 2.6 in the channel this morning and a 2.8 north east.

        Have a nice day.

        • As you’ve got a MSci in geoph I’m sure you know, like every other geophysicist in the world, that the earth has a solid core. Dutchsinse thinks the core is plasma, showing how litlle he understands about basic geophysics.

          • Is that your qualified opinion AI? Or geoph’s? Better take a look at SEDI the Study of Earths Deep Interior for the latest info?

            I think you will find the jury is out on that one at present, but you could always hitch a lift down one of the deepest…….bores……and take a look yourself? The Russia Kola deep…..bore…..is no longer the deepest, there is another Russian and one in Quatar that exceeds by a few hundred metres.

            But any of those will be only a tiny fraction of the depth required to get to the core, if that is even possible of course, unless you believe the hollywood version that is? But those deep…..bores….. have revealed some interesting previously unknown conditions deeper into the crust.

            It is hot, 500F at the bottom of the deep….bores…..and is estimated to be about 1000 degrees hotter at the core than estimated previously, surprisingly wet with highly saline water right down to the bottom of the …..bores….and estimated to be thousands of tons per square metre at the core.

            What that heat and pressure does to the structure of the matter, be it iron or crystal or plasma? its all a matter of rational or irrational speculation.

            Whatever is down there is simply unknown at present. Is it more likely to be iron? it fits much of the observations certainly, but its by no means a “known” but perhaps more of a “known unknown”?

            Does anyone actually “know”? In 2008 Xiadong Song and Xinlei Sun proposed a different inner inner core about 1200 km across. Not much can be made of these ideas until others confirm the work.Whatever we learn raises new questions. The liquid iron “must” be the source of Earth’s geomagnetic field— the geodynamo—but how does it work? Why does the geodynamo flip, switching magnetic north and south, over geologic time? What happens at the top of the core, where molten metal meets the rocky mantle?
            Answers began to emerge during the 1990s.

            http://boredomtherapy.com/kola-superdeep-borehole/

            https://www.livescience.com/29054-earth-core-hotter.html

            Earth’s Core 1,000 Degrees Hotter Than Expected
            Earth has multiple layers: the crust, the mantle, the liquid outer core and the solid inner core.
            Credit: NASA

            Earth’s internal engine is running about 1,000 degrees Celsius (about 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) hotter than previously measured, providing a better explanation for how the planet generates a magnetic field, a new study has found.

            A team of scientists has measured the melting point of iron at high precision in a laboratory, and then drew from that result to calculate the temperature at the boundary of Earth’s inner and outer core — now estimated at 6,000 C (about 10,800 F). That’s as hot as the surface of the sun.

            The difference in temperature matters, because this explains how the Earth generates its magnetic field. The Earth has a solid inner core surrounded by a liquid outer core, which, in turn, has the solid, but flowing, mantle above it. There needs to be a 2,700-degree F (1,500 C) difference between the inner core and the mantle to spur “thermal movements” that — along with Earth’s spin — create the magnetic field.

            The previously measured core temperature didn’t demonstrate enough of a differential, puzzling researchers for two decades. The new results are detailed in the April 26 issue of the journal Science.

            The centerpiece of the experiment was a new X-ray technique that takes measurements faster than before. Iron samples compressed in the laboratory typically last for only a few seconds, making it difficult to determine in previous experiments if the iron is still a solid, or if it is starting to melt.

            The technique makes use of diffraction that occurs when X-rays, or other forms of light, hit an obstacle and bend around it. Scientists sent X-ray bursts at the sample and observed the “signature” of heating, which is a diffuse ring, that pinpointed the temperature.

            These experiments pegged the melting point of iron at 4,800 C (about 8,700 F) at a pressure of 2.2 million times that is found on Earth’s surface at sea level.

            Extrapolating from that measurement, scientists estimated the boundary between Earth’s inner and outer core is a searing 10,832 F, give or take about 930 degrees, at a pressure of 3.3 million atmospheres (or 3.3 million times the atmospheric pressure at sea level).

            Participating organizations in the experiment include CEA (a French national technological research organization), the French National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS) and the European Synchrotron Radiation Facility (ESRF).

            We can’t journey to the centre of the Earth, but that hasn’t stopped us finding out what is down there

            Humans have been all over the Earth. We’ve conquered the lands, flown through the air and dived to the deepest trenches in the ocean. We’ve even been to the Moon. But we’ve never been to the planet’s core.

            We haven’t even come close. The central point of the Earth is over 6,000km down, and even the outermost part of the core is nearly 3,000 km below our feet. The deepest hole we’ve ever created on the surface is the Kola Superdeep Borehole in Russia, and it only goes down a pitiful 12.3 km.

            All the familiar events on Earth also happen close to the surface. The lava that spews from volcanoes first melts just a few hundred kilometres down. Even diamonds, which need extreme heat and pressure to form, originate in rocks less than 500km deep.

            What’s down below all that is shrouded in mystery. It seems unfathomable. And yet, we know a surprising amount about the core. We even have some idea about how it formed billions of years ago – all without a single physical sample. This is how the core was revealed.

            One good way to start is to think about the mass of the Earth, says Simon Redfern of the University of Cambridge in the UK.

            Most of the Earth’s mass must be located towards the centre of the planet

            We can estimate Earth’s mass by observing the effect of the planet’s gravity on objects at the surface. It turns out that the mass of the Earth is 5.9 sextillion tonnes: that’s 59 followed by 20 zeroes.

            There’s no sign of anything that massive at the surface.

            “The density of the material at the Earth’s surface is much lower than the average density of the whole Earth, so that tells us there’s something much denser,” says Redfern. “That’s the first thing.”

            Essentially, most of the Earth’s mass must be located towards the centre of the planet. The next step is to ask which heavy materials make up the core.

            The answer here is that it’s “almost certainly” made mostly of iron. The core is “thought” to be around 80% iron, though the exact figure is up for debate.

            An iron core “would” account for all that missing mass

            The main evidence for this is the huge amount of iron in the universe around us. It is one of the ten most common elements in our galaxy, and is frequently found in meteorites.

            Given how much there is of it, iron is much less common at the surface of the Earth than we might expect. So the theory is that when Earth formed 4.5 billion years ago, a lot of iron worked its way down to the core.

            That’s where most of the mass is, and it’s where most of the iron must be too. Iron is a relatively dense element under normal conditions, and under the extreme pressure at the Earth’s core it would be crushed to an even higher density, so an iron core would account for all that missing mass.

            But wait a minute. How did that iron get down there in the first place?

            The iron must have somehow gravitated – literally – towards the centre of the Earth. But it’s not immediately obvious how.

            Most of the rest of the Earth is made up of rocks called silicates, and molten iron struggles to travel through them. Rather like how water on a greasy surface forms droplets, the iron clings to itself in little reservoirs, refusing to spread out and flow.

            The pressure actually changes the properties of how iron interacts with the silicate

            A possible solution was discovered in 2013 by Wendy Mao of Stanford University in California and her colleagues. They wondered what happened when the iron and silicate were both exposed to extreme pressure, as happens deep in the earth.

            By pinching both substances extremely tightly using diamonds, they were able to force molten iron through silicate.

            “The pressure actually changes the properties of how iron interacts with the silicate,” says Mao. “At higher pressures a ‘melt network’ is formed.”

            This suggests the iron was gradually squeezed down through the rocks of the Earth over millions of years, until it reached the core.

            At this point you might be wondering how we know the size of the core. What makes scientists think it begins 3000km down? There’s a one-word answer: seismology.

            All the seismic stations dotted all over the Earth recorded the arrival of the tremors

            When an earthquake happens, it sends shockwaves throughout the planet. Seismologists record these vibrations. It’s as if we hit one side of the planet with a gigantic hammer, and listened on the other side for the noise.

            “There was a Chilean earthquake in the 1960s that generated a huge amount of data,” says Redfern. “All the seismic stations dotted all over the Earth recorded the arrival of the tremors from that earthquake.”

            Depending on the route those vibrations take, they pass through different bits of the Earth, and this affects how they “sound” at the other end.

            Early in the history of seismology, it was realised that some vibrations were going missing. These “S-waves” were expected to show up on one side of the Earth after originating on the other, but there was no sign of them.

            It turned out that rocks became liquid around 3000km down

            The reason for this was simple. S-waves can only reverberate through solid material, and can’t make it through liquid.

            They must have come up against something molten in the centre of the Earth. By mapping the S-waves’ paths, it turned out that rocks became liquid around 3000km down.

            That suggested the entire core was molten. But seismology had another surprise in store.

            In the 1930s, a Danish seismologist named Inge Lehmann noticed that another kind of waves, called P-waves, unexpectedly travelled through the core and could be detected on the other side of the planet.

            P-waves really were travelling through the core

            She came up with a surprising explanation: the core is divided into two layers. The “inner” core, which begins around 5,000km down, was actually solid. It was only the “outer” core above it that was molten.

            Lehmann’s idea was eventually confirmed in 1970, when more sensitive seismographs found that P-waves really were travelling through the core and, in some cases, being deflected off it at angles. Sure enough, they still ended up on the other side of the planet.

            It’s not just earthquakes that sent useful shockwaves through the Earth. In fact, seismology owes a lot of its success to the development of nuclear weapons.

            A nuclear detonation also creates waves in the ground, so nations use seismology to listen out for weapons tests. During the Cold War this was seen as hugely important, so seismologists like Lehmann got a lot of encouragement.

            This turns out to be quite tricky to determine

            Rival countries found out about each other’s nuclear capabilities and along the way we learned more and more about the core of the Earth. Seismology is still used to detect nuclear detonations today.

            We can now draw a rough picture of the Earth’s structure. There is a molten outer core, which begins roughly halfway to the planet’s centre, and within it is the solid inner core with a diameter of 1,220 km.

            But there is a lot more to try and tease out, especially about the inner core. For starters, how hot is it?

            This turns out to be quite tricky to determine, and baffled scientists until quite recently, says Lidunka Vočadlo of University College London in the UK. We can’t put a thermometer down there, so the only solution is to create the correct crushing pressure in the lab.

            Earth’s core has stayed warm thanks to heat retained from the formation of the planet

            In 2013 a team of French researchers produced the best estimate to date. They subjected pure iron to pressures a little over half that at the core, and extrapolated from there. They concluded that the melting point of pure iron at core temperatures is around 6,230 °C. The presence of other materials would bring the core’s melting point down a bit, to around 6,000 °C. But that’s still as hot as the surface of the Sun.

            A bit like a toasty jacket potato, Earth’s core has stayed warm thanks to heat retained from the formation of the planet. It also gets heat from friction as denser materials shift around, as well as from the decay of radioactive elements. Still, it is cooling by about 100 °C every billion years.

            Knowing the temperature is useful, because it affects the speed at which vibrations travel through the core. That is handy, because there is something odd about the vibrations.

            P-waves travel unexpectedly slowly as they go through the inner core – slower than they would if it was made of pure iron.

            It’s a Cinderella problem: no shoe will quite fit

            “Wave velocities that the seismologists measure in earthquakes and whatnot are significantly lower [than] anything that we measure in an experiment or calculate on a computer,” says Vočadlo. “Nobody as yet knows why that is.”

            That suggests there is another material in the mix.

            It could well be another metal, called nickel. But scientists have estimated how seismic waves would travel through an iron-nickel alloy, and it doesn’t quite fit the readings either.

            Vočadlo and her colleagues are now considering whether there might be other elements down there too, like sulphur and silicon. So far, no-one has been able to come up with a theory for the inner core’s composition that satisfies everyone. It’s a Cinderella problem: no shoe will quite fit.

            That could explain why the seismic waves pass through more slowly than expected

            Vočadlo is trying to simulate the materials of the inner core on a computer. She hopes to find a combination of materials, temperatures and pressures that would slow down the seismic waves by the right amount.

            She says the secret might lie in the fact that the inner core is nearly at its melting point. As a result, the precise properties of the materials might be different from what they would be if they were safely solid.

            That could explain why the seismic waves pass through more slowly than expected.

            “If that’s the real effect, we would be able to reconcile the mineral physics results with the seismological results,” says Vocadlo. “People have not been able to do that yet.”

            There are plenty of riddles about the earth’s core still to solve. But without ever digging to those impossible depths, scientists have figured out a great deal about what is happening thousands of kilometres beneath us.

            The magnetic field helps to shield us from harmful solar radiation

            Those hidden processes in the depths of the Earth are crucial to our daily lives, in a way many of us don’t realise.

            Earth has a powerful magnetic field, and that is all thanks to the partially molten core. The constant movement of molten iron creates an electrical current inside the planet, and that in turn generates a magnetic field that reaches far out into space.

            The magnetic field helps to shield us from harmful solar radiation. If the core of the Earth wasn’t the way it is, there would be no magnetic field, and we would have all sorts of problems to contend with.

            None of us will ever set eyes on the core, but it’s good to know it’s there.

            For more than 20 years, the world’s deepest hole could be found on Russia’s Kola peninsula, boring 40,000 feet down into the Earth’s crust. In recent years, though, the Kola Superdeep Borehole (yes, that’s its actual name) has been dwarfed by both a 40,318-foot oil rig in Qatar and a 40,502-foot well off the Russian island of Sakhalin, and you get the sense that the race for deepest hole in the world is not over yet.

            Giggle any of these super deep boreholes and you’ll see pictures of gaping, circular voids leading thousands of feet down to a pit of mysteries. A hole’s endless nature is just the sort of thing that make a person ponder existential questions like: What does life actually mean? And can you really get to China by digging? It also brings to mind more practical inquires such as: How far down could I go before I’m totally incinerated? Or is this going to cause an earthquake?

            Decades ago, the Russians drilled deeper than anyone has ever gone. Their Kola Superdeep Borehole was started in 1970 and still holds the world record for the deepest hole in the ground. But they didn’t reach the mantle. As the latest mantle drilling project begins today off the coast of Africa, people are wondering if a billion dollars for the newest hole in the ground is worth the money. We can’t say. We don’t know what the team in the Indian Ocean might learn. But back in the ’70s and ’80s, no one expected the results the Soviets got from their 12,262-metre-deep borehole.

            Here are 6 unexpected discoveries from the world’s deepest wells:

            There’s a lot of water down there. Hot mineralized water was found almost everywhere along the drill path. Everyone figured that the granite would be as dry as a stone. Who says you can’t get water from a rock?
            To cut miles into the ground, the engineers had to invent a whole new drill. In the past, drillers quickly spun the entire drillstem so the bit at the bottom could chew the bedrock. Before starting, the Soviets calculated that the tubing would weigh over a million pounds. They could never generate enough torque to rotate that much pipe fast enough to drill through kilometres of granite. So, in 1969, the Soviets invented a rotary bit. It spun by sending pressurized mud down the pipe where it blew through a turbine at the drill head, spinning it 80 revolutions per minute. It worked and the system is now used on oil wells.
            The Earth has gas. Unexpectedly, helium, hydrogen, nitrogen, and even carbon dioxide (from microbes) were found all along the borehole.
            There is no basalt under the continent’s granite. This was a huge surprise. Seismic suggested that at 9,000 metres the granite would give way to basalt. It doesn’t. The seismic anomaly that suggested basalt was caused by metamorphosed granite instead. This gave support for plate tectonics, which was a new theory when the Kola Superdeep Borehole was being drilled.
            There are fossils in granite 6,700 metres below the surface. How’d that happen?
            Hell is deeper than 12,262 metres. There’s a persistent rumour that the drilling ended in 1992 because scientists pierced a super-hot cavity and heard the screams of damned souls. Not likely. For that, they probably needed to actually reach the mantle.

            https://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/PavelKhazron.shtml

            Pressure at the Center of the Earth

            A number of advances in physical sciences took place before any assessment of the pressure distribution within the earth were possible. Newton’s gravitational law provided the stepping stone for this venture. The attractive force between two objects (according to Newton) was directly proportional to the product of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between their centers, or

            F ~ m1m2/r2

            Written with a constant, this expression becomes

            F = Gm1m2/r2

            The constant G had to be determined experimentally; it could not be calculated. Henry Cavendish arrived at the value of G through experimental means

            G = 6.7 × 10−11 Nm2/kg2

            Evaluation of G has prompted the measurement of the earth’s mass and consequently its density through the expression d = me/ve. The value of the Earth’s density is approximately 5497 kg/m3.

            Like many of the concepts in geophysics, density distribution within the earth is being studied through indirect means. Of particular value is the study of seismic wave propagation. Transverse and longitudinal seismic waves (shear and compressional waves respectively) behave differently depending on the medium in which they travel. A distinguishing property of shear waves is that they cannot pass through liquids and gases, while compressional waves can. Experimental evidence shows that, up to a depth of some 2900 km, shear wave movements are observed; material in this region s apparently rigid enough to allow such movement. Beyond 2900 km depth, no shear wave movements are observed, leading to a hypothesis that space beyond the 2900 km depth is filled with liquid. There is a fair amount of certainty that this liquid region is composed primarily iron, which is by far the most common of the dense materials on earth. Because of the immense pressures created by gravitational forces, the earth’s core could have been squeezed to a solid, but high temperatures (roughly 2000 °C, according to one estimate) probably melted the iron.

            Results of the study of seismic wave propagation in the form of density distribution yielded a hypothetical pressure distribution model of the earth’s interior. At the centre, the pressure is about 380 GPa (380,000,000,000 pascal).

            Bundy, F. P. The Diamond Makers. Physics Today. (November 2000): 59. “The last part of the book deals with efforts of scientists to harness the remarkable physical properties of diamond in miniature ultrahigh-pressure apparatuses (diamond anvil cells), using opposing, single-crystal diamond anvils to generate extremely high pressures in very small regions–pressures nearly as great as that at the center of planet Earth (about 3.5 megabar).” 350 GPa

            by Andrew Alden
            Updated August 06, 2018

            A century ago, science barely knew that the Earth even had a core. Today we are tantalized by the core and its connections with the rest of the planet. Indeed, we’re at the start of a golden age of core studies.
            The Core’s Gross Shape

            We knew by the 1890s, from the way Earth responds to the gravity of the Sun and Moon, that the planet has a dense core, probably iron. In 1906 Richard Dixon Oldham found that earthquake waves move through the Earth’s center much slower than they do through the mantle around it—because the center is liquid.
            In 1936 Inge Lehmann reported that something reflects seismic waves from within the core. It became clear that the core consists of a thick shell of liquid iron—the outer core—with a smaller, solid inner core at its center. It’s solid because at that depth the high pressure overcomes the effect of high temperature.In 2002 Miaki Ishii and Adam Dziewonski of Harvard University published evidence of an “innermost inner core” some 600 kilometers across. In 2008 Xiadong Song and Xinlei Sun proposed a different inner inner core about 1200 km across. Not much can be made of these ideas until others confirm the work.Whatever we learn raises new questions. The liquid iron must be the source of Earth’s geomagnetic field— the geodynamo—but how does it work? Why does the geodynamo flip, switching magnetic north and south, over geologic time? What happens at the top of the core, where molten metal meets the rocky mantle?
            Answers began to emerge during the 1990s.

            Studying the Core
            Our main tool for core research has been earthquake waves, especially those from large events like the 2004 Sumatra quake. The ringing “normal modes,” which make the planet pulsate with the sort of motions you see in a large soap bubble, are useful for examining large-scale deep structure.
            But a big problem is nonuniqueness—any given piece of seismic evidence can be interpreted more than one way. A wave that penetrates the core also traverses the crust at least once and the mantle at least twice, so a feature in a seismogram may originate in several possible places. Many different pieces of data must be cross-checked.The barrier of nonuniqueness faded somewhat as we began to simulate the deep Earth in computers with realistic numbers, and as we reproduced high temperatures and pressures in the laboratory with the diamond-anvil cell. These tools (and length-of-day studies) have let us peer through the layers of the Earth until at last we can contemplate the core.What the Core Is Made OfConsidering that the whole Earth on average consists of the same mixture of stuff we see elsewhere in the solar system, the core has to be iron metal along with some nickel. But it’s less dense than pure iron, so about 10 percent of the core must be something lighter.Ideas about what that light ingredient is have been evolving. Sulfur and oxygen have been candidates for a long time, and even hydrogen has been considered. Lately, there has been a rise of interest in silicon, as high-pressure experiments and simulations suggest that it may dissolve in molten iron better than we thought.Maybe more than one of these is down there. It takes a lot of ingenious reasoning and uncertain assumptions to propose any particular recipe—but the subject is not beyond all conjecture.Seismologists continue to probe the inner core. The core’s eastern hemisphere appears to differ from the western hemisphere in the way the iron crystals are aligned. The problem is hard to attack because seismic waves have to go pretty much straight from an earthquake, right through the Earth’s center, to a seismograph. Events and machines that happen to be lined up just right are rare. And the effects are subtle.
            Core Dynamics
            In 1996, Xiadong Song and Paul Richards confirmed a prediction that the inner core rotates slightly faster than the rest of the Earth. The magnetic forces of the geodynamo seem to be responsible.Over geologic time, the inner core grows as the whole Earth cools. At the top of the outer core, iron crystals freeze out and rain into the inner core. At the base of the outer core, the iron freezes under pressure taking much of the nickel with it. The remaining liquid iron is lighter and rises. These rising and falling motions, interacting with geomagnetic forces, stir the whole outer core at a speed of 20 kilometers a year or so.The planet Mercury also has a large iron core and a magnetic field, though much weaker than Earth’s. Recent research hints that Mercury’s core is rich in sulfur and that a similar freezing process stirs it, with “iron snow” falling and sulfur-enriched liquid rising.Core studies surged in 1996 when computer models by Gary Glatzmaier and Paul Roberts first reproduced the behavior of the geodynamo, including spontaneous reversals. Hollywood gave Glatzmaier an unexpected audience when it used his animations in the action movie The Core.Recent high-pressure lab work by Raymond Jeanloz, Ho-Kwang (David) Mao and others has given us hints about the core-mantle boundary, where liquid iron interacts with silicate rock. The experiments show that core and mantle materials undergo strong chemical reactions. This is the region where many think mantle plumes originate, rising to form places like the Hawaiian Islands chain, Yellowstone, Iceland, and other surface features. The more we learn about the core, the closer it becomes.

            Of course not, such things are unknowable at our present state of ignorance.

            And by the way, matters regarding the core are more to do with planetary physics and geologists tend to be more interested in the crust and at a stretch to the mantle or magma below which is fascinating enough in its own right.

            But of course speculation is always fun, its just a pity such speculation finds its way into the science books as “known” facts.

            Here is a little song to educate and amuse if all that is too much for you?:

            • The jury has already decided that the inner core is solid and not plasma.
              As for the Qatar well, you are confusing measured depth below the surface and true vertical depth. Measured depth is measured along the borehole, so a horizontal well will have a measured depth much greater than its vertical depth below ground level.

      • Yes! – the Qatar wells were drilled by Maersk and are at a vertical depth of less than 4,000 ft. So Phil C you are incorrect. The depths of 35,000 ft plus are measured depth.

        The Russian Kola well quoted is near vertical and many times vertically deeper than the Qatar wells.

        https://everything.explained.today/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole/

        The famous deep well drilled exploring your ideas was the Silijan well drilled into the meterorite crater in Sweden in the late 1980’s:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siljan_%28lake%29

        • Ha! Ha! Success! Just winding you guys up Paul, fun…..isnt it?

          You talking for AI now by the way, why don’t you let him answer for himself?

          And Oooh! My god! You actually did some research Paul!! Wow! Well done! I thought you guys never giggled anything so demanding and only got others to do it for you?

          Heavens to Betsy! Things are looking up……eerrr,….sorry…..2.4km down! Or is it?

          Since all that was from papers and web sites, perhaps go tell the authors they are wrong! I am sure they would love to hear from you and no doubt there will always be an opportunity to smear them too?

          Actually its all a bit of a diversion away from the subject in hand isnt it? I thought you lot had all gone to sleep and just left the AI on automatic D.E.N.I.A.L. mode? Do i have to lead you guys by the nose all the time? I had almost given up!

          do you realise that I dont really care one way or the other whether one …..bore…..is deeper than another….bore….Paul?

          Since it is what such…..bores…..reveal about the structure of the earth and not the rather obsessive finger and toe counting of how deep one is to another? Yeah, number counting is such ground breaking stuff isnt it…….Ha! Ha! Ground breaking!

          And i notice you don’t pick up on any of the reams of evidence i helpfully provided? why not ask DOD Paul to redact it? No, that would be less important than triumphal air punching about a few metres one way or the other wouldn’t it?

          Go on! Have a field day, pick on one single word and blow that out of all proportion as if its some sort of victory whilst simultaneously ignoring entirely anything that cannot dare be discussed!

          Such fun! Always a pleasure!

          Have a great weekend looking for that single little word or depth that seems to be the only things you guys are actually able to get pleasure from these days? Oh, yes, apart from stamping the industries presence on little villages [edited by moderator]? That always gives you guys a little chuckle does’nt it?

          .

          • this is Interesting to watch the entire report, but for the locals, the report from 20 minutes about an explosion in the north sea and the quake in waste water injection in north east UK. also it appears that the Chinese and the USGS are failing to publicly report quakes of magnitude 4.0 and greater and reducing magnitudes due to the commitment that requires to report to the local authorities? Dodgy at best.

            Enjoy!
            Enjoy!

          • No research Phil C. I was indirectly involved with the Swedish well and a friend of mine was GM for Maersk Qatar. As a drilling engineer extended reach drilling records are always of interest. A company I was involved with discovered the field in Qatar – Gulfrstream Resources. There is a very interesting story about the concession. But not for this BB.

            You didn’t read the papers correctly, they are all measured depths – you really do need to research properly and understand what you are reading. Vertical well – if actually drilled vertically MD = TVD. Deviated well MD > TVD, it has to be doesn’t it?

            [Edited by moderator]

    • Ha! Ha! More desperation guys? Debunk! Debunk! Debunk! Who debunks the debunker? And what motivation is it that attempts to debunk anything by the chosen target and then tries to rubbish by implication their entire output?

      Do you know how that is used by barristers and lawyers all the time and is called the Reptile Plaintiff strategy.

      now that is an interesting question isnt it?

      What this actually shows is what you guys display on almost every post now, that you have nothing but character assassination to back up any of your actions.

      What i find most interesting, is that far from contacting the author dutchsinse, that someone called Space Weather chooses to debunk dutchsinse, so lets have a look at Space weather’s output shall we?

      And what do we see?

      Oh dear, oh dear, it seems Space Weather’s previous ID was “Debunk”? Ahhh, now we begin to see the modus operandi of this “Space Weather” guy dont we?

      Then we have to understand why someone claims to be an Expert and “Space Weather’s” sole output seems to be to simply debunk everyone who he disagrees with? Now we begin to understand the motivations of someone who only believes only his own opinion and debunks anyone else’s?

      Now i have had a long academic and a long work experience and i have noticed this attitude amongst many others, and it was often either jealousy or some personal antagonism, or a simple wish to be seen to be more intelligent, or reliable than the chosen target, often out of simple “top dog fog” mentality we see on Drill Or Drop all the time.

      In such situations in my experience i have found that simply working with someone to create a synthesis rather than an antagonistic fight or flight situation is preferable, then everyone wins and the causes science and physics is advanced and does not descend into the abject chaos of fixed inflexible camps sniping and sneering at each other from increasingly hardened bunkers and trying to tear each other down.

      Much more advantageous to promote a rational and harmonious synthesis isnt it?

      Unless, of course, there is an industry hack agenda which would not stand up to close scrutiny if an independent view were allowed to be applied?

      I have tried that with you guys in the past, but it has only been consistently swatted away with bitterness and venom and direct personal attack, and that in itself is telling of a protective fear of rational debate, since bitterness and personal attack preserves division and provides polarisation into fixed inflexible camps, a simple divide and conquer strategy and that is perfectly illustrated by this little tirade.

      So why the present divide and conquer agenda of the present industry system?

      Would it not be better for all, that should such protagonists as “Space Weather” honestly contacting “dutchsinse” and then in working together to get a synthesised co-operative common agreement of views and attitudes and then everyone wins?

      But no, “Space Weather” decides to do a total debunk, not on the entire output mind, because that would reveal areas where debunking is not possible, rather than that, the strategy is use a knit picking of little aspects is chosen target dutchsinse, that is intended to imply that the total output of dutchsinse is baseless, but the knit picks of little elements tend to blow those up out of all proportion to the total picture and do not actually address the total conclusions?

      What we may ask is so dangerous that it cannot be allowed to stand? What must be concealed?

      So its a careful implied “tear down” strategy rather than anything that is a total debunk in actuality isn’t it? Areas of agreement would not validate the strategy of the debunker would it? In Lawyer and Barrister terms that is called the Reptile Plaintiff strategy and is intended to debunk entire juries by knit picking on one tiny aspect of connection and implying that invalidates the candidate.

      That is very suspicious isnt it? Because what one begins to suspect, is why such an attitude is almost entirely concentrated on “Debunking”…sorry “Space Weathering” others?

      Is that hubris? Jealousy of the number of “hits” that are wanted on his own site? Or just a plain and simple desire to only have his opinion portrayed on the web and then produce his own theories that may, or may not be any more valid or scientifically responsible?

      One may begin to wonder about support from possible agencies, corporate affiliations, interested party pressure groups and lobby groups, and financial benefits and support and simple outright bias?

      Interesting isnt it? See how easy it is? Debunk the debunkers and maybe we will begin to see the truth of the hidden agenda behind such activities.

      And what is really interesting, is that since you guys almost entire output is now concerted attempts at “debunking” and decrying anything anyone says to counter your own agenda, then what does that say about you guys and this little transparent tirade?

      I would tend to give the benefit of the doubt to any independent rogue that has no agenda other than to disseminate information to the public, such as dutchsinse and others, on the shoulders of such as Galilei Galileo or Nikola Tesla or or anyone else who runs up against the propped up crumbling brick walls and houses of cards of vested interests than an entire slew of “debunkers” any day of the week?

      Such fun!

      Always a pleasure!

      Have a nice rrrroooouuuuggh weekend!

      [Text added at poster’s request]

      • Oops! Missed out the reference, could this be added to the end of paragraph 2 please?

        “the Reptile Plaintiff strategy”

        Thanks

        [Corrected]

        • That should be “Galileo Galilei”, in the last paragraph of course, not the other way around? Hey! Quick! Thats a possible debunk opportunity Paul and David S? Go on! Go for it!

          • This is interesting, its The Crowhouse presented by Max Igan, and this goes into the efforts to close down independent thought and make people follow the official agenda under threat of redaction.
            it also suggests a possible reason why “Space Weather” disagrees with dutchsinse regarding the antipodes of earthquakes in opposing hemispheres, and the potential implications are quite fascinating?

            Funny how one question reveals a deeper anomaly that potentially blows everything out of the water?

            Enjoy!

            Enjoy!

  2. Wow – just wow! So now you are allowed to post factually incorrect information on this BB and no-one can question its veracity – is that it?

    You actually have an obligation to all other posters and viewers of this BB, to fact thoroughly fact check your posts and then and only then post statements that are factually correct, otherwise what is the point?

    Both AI and Paul Tresto quite rightly pointed out to you that the 2 other wells that you refer to in Qatar and Russia were extended reach wells and the depths reported are the measured depth and not the vertical depth.

    Here is what you posted in reply to AI on August 31st at 8.14am: ‘For more than 20 years, the world’s deepest hole could be found on Russia’s Kola peninsula, boring 40,000 feet down into the Earth’s crust. In recent years, though, the Kola Superdeep Borehole (yes, that’s its actual name) has been dwarfed by both a 40,318-foot oil rig in Qatar and a 40,502-foot well off the Russian island of Sakhalin, and you get the sense that the race for deepest hole in the world is not over yet. Giggle any of these super deep boreholes and you’ll see pictures of gaping, circular voids leading thousands of feet down to a pit of mysteries. A hole’s endless nature is just the sort of thing that make a person ponder existential questions like: What does life actually mean? And can you really get to China by digging? It also brings to mind more practical inquires such as: How far down could I go before I’m totally incinerated? Or is this going to cause an earthquake?’

    This has been copied, word for word apart from the substitution of Giggle for Google, from an article entitled ‘Listen to Strange Sounds recorded in a Hole 5 Miles Deep’ on the Wired.com website (https://www.wired.com/2014/01/an-artist-records-the-mysterious-rumblings-of-middle-earth/)

    Really? this is the level of the research that you frequently tell us to do? Even the language used is incorrect ‘a 40,318 foot oil rig in Qatar’ – what a 40,318 foot tall oil rig? A quick search, even on the notoriously unreliable Wikipedia would show that the Qatar Al Shaheen well was 40,318 feet measured depth as was the Sakhalin well, not vertical depth as in the Kola Superdeep borehole. This is a massive factual difference.

    So let’s look at another sentence from the above cut and paste from the wired.com article: ‘Google any of these superdeep boreholes and you’ll see pictures of gaping, circular voids leading thousands of feet down to a pit of mysteries’

    Err no, you will not. For starters the Al Shaheen well was drilled offshore in 36 days with the Global Santa Fe 127 jack-up rig. Do really think there is a gaping void underneath an offshore drilling rig?

    Now let’s do the google exercise and look for images of the Kola Superdeep borehole (https://www.google.com/search?q=kola+superdeep+borehole&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwid2fGTpqHdAhVIAcAKHU3kAXYQ_AUICigB&biw=1696&bih=803). Oooh look lots of pictures of massive holes in the ground – except there is one huge problem – most of them are of the Mirny Diamond mine in Siberia (http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/5-fascinating-facts-about-mir-mine-the-world-s-largest-open-pit-diamond-mine) or the Bingham Copper Mine in Utah (https://www.ft.com/content/54725626-0416-11e7-aa5b-6bb07f5c8e12)

    I note that one of the photos on the googled page is even captioned ‘ The Kola Superdeep Borehole: the deepest hole on Earth’ on a website calling itself, laughably, iheartintelligence.com – so intelligent that it couldn’t even be bothered to check out whether the captioned photo was in fact the Kola Superdeep borehole – which it is not. This might make you laugh – it did me – one of the photos purporting to be of the Kola Superdeep borehole which turns out to be the Mirny Diamond mine is posted on a website calling itself elitereaders.com and the source attributed to the photo? – the Flat Earth Society – you couldn’t make this stuff up! (https://www.elitereaders.com/americans-russians-drilling-race/?cn-reloaded=1).

    There are correct photos on this page – the ones that show the superstructiure constructed around the drilling rig and the welded shut 9 inch! diameter wellhead. Note no gaping circular void in sight.

    Let’s have a look at another ‘fact’ cut and pasted and presented in the August 31st post. ‘So, in 1969, the Soviets invented a rotary bit. It spun by sending pressurized mud down the pipe where it blew through a turbine at the drill head, spinning it 80 revolutions per minute. It worked and the system is now used on oil wells.’ No – wrong, wrong, wrong! Turbo drilling was invented by a Russian (phew they got that bit correct), Matvey Kapelyushnikov, in 1922 (http://www.oilru.com/or/46/979/) and first used in the oil industry in 1924! (http://www.visions.az/en/news/366/4ca556e3/) In the Kola Superdeep borehole the Russians involved had to invent new logging tools that could withstand the downhole temperatures, but they did not invent turbo drilling in 1969.

    On we go….. here is another ‘fact’ in the same post: ‘There are fossils in granite 6,700 metres below the surface. How’d that happen?’ Well it didn’t happen. As any ‘A’ level geology student knows there are no fossils found in granite – anywhere, ever! I have actually read the geological report of the Kola Superdeep borehole, written by the Russian geologists involved, and the deepest interval studied for microfossils was at a depth of 5,687m – 5710m (note not 6,700m) and guess what – they were found in meta-sedimentary rocks. Yes that’s right, sedimentary rocks where you would expect to find fossils, which have undergone metamorphism.

    All of the above is called fact checking Phil C, which you have failed spectacularly to do and have posted the above statements as fact, with no caveat stating that you may or may not agree with these statements. You said to Paul Tresto ‘And i notice you don’t pick up on any of the reams of evidence i helpfully provided?’ Well I did and it is riddled with factual errors.

    And so on to the debunking of Dutchsinse (real name Michael Janitch) who you are clearly a fan of. It is not only Spaceweather who has an issue with his ‘science’ (https://www.quora.com/Is-Michael-Janitch-aka-Dutchsinse-able-to-accurately-forecast-earthquakes).

    Here is a quote from this last link:

    ‘ The Pacific Northwest Earthquake Discussion Facebook group actually have a post they pin from time to time by John Vidale, fomer Pacific Northwest Seismic Network Director, and currently director of the Southern California Earthquake Center (John Vidale – Wikipedia), to remind people not to post links to his clickbait alarmist stories: “Two more people just emailed the PNSN about why do we and the USGS hide earthquakes, so here is a reminder that the most likely instigator of this nonsense isn’t so sure that man ever went to the Moon, either.

    old post:
    Please post no more links to Dutchsinse’s fear-mongering, uninformed, clickbait geo-musings. Such posts will be removed and the posters expunged. Feel free to argue in the comments to this post.
    I’ll unpin this until the need to pin it arises again.”

    Comments continue:
    “It isn’t about us. We would like to use our time to educate people who are curious and willing to learn, so that they can identify misinformation for what it is and keep it from spreading. Learning to evaluate the source of your information is a key part of that, hence the above conspiracy posts that are not only offensive but devoid of evidence. This is all about empowering people to scrutinize their sources, not simply shielding them.”
    You can have a browse through that thread for examples of some of the absurd things he has said in the past, as geologists understand them.

    Of course he (Dutchsinse) rants away on his blog about this:
    In an ironic twist of fate, the Pacific Northwest Seismic Network, and the Lead Geologist from Washington State University (Professor John Vidale) have taken the time to publicly harass me on my facebook page AND youtube page over the past several weeks, and months. The fact that the DIRECTOR of the PNSN frequents my facebook page to give me a hard time instead of spending their time doing their seismic science is proof that the seismic professionals have lost focus — more worried about popularity online, more worried about “dutchsinse” than they are about showing swarm locations, or doing any real forecasting of earthquakes.
    Pacific Northwest Seismic Network – They are in a bit of a catch 22. If they approve posts about his nonsense in their group they seem to be validating it as something worth discussing. If they tell them not to post, then he will say they are “censoring him”.

    It’s the same for the USGS, he rants at them on his Facebook page when they – and they say his videos are nonsense – and his fans are all with him on that.

    But it is not really even a case of him, a lone researcher, with no training in geology, battling away with a possibly brilliant innovative new theory against hordes of professional geologists who won’t listen to him just because of his lack of education in geology.

    It is a case of him actually making up nonsense and BS. That you can verify for yourself to be BS.

    People need to know this. Not just treat his material as if it made sense. It seems he doesn’t know the most basic ideas in geology and clearly has no training as a geologist. He tells stories that are not actually true even about the things he himself describes as happening, as Space Weather made clear. He shows no sign of caring about truth or understanding or wanting to apply the scientific method. If he cared, there are ways to verifiy his ideas – but he just makes up those arrows and doesn’t attempt the most basic checks of whether they correspond to anything in reality.

    Note – there are some reliable bloggers. Some are geologists themselves. Or, if you know how to check sources you can write articles for the public to read based on the USGS sources, especially if you know a bit of geology yourself, and you contact the experts there for help. They are ready to respond to emails to explain things if you don’t understand something.
    But he doesn’t do that. He just invents his own ideas spinning the nonsense from nothing at all.’

    Let’s look at another analysis of a Dutchsinse you tube video

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ0j27f5XG4&t=93s)

    Please watch and listen to his statements from 09.00 minutes onwards where he categorically states that the African and South American plates are moving towards each other and that the mid-Atlantic Ridge is accretionary. It is a scientifically proven fact, by deep sea drilling and empirically measured observations of the palaeomagnetism of the sampled oceanic crust, amongst other things, that the oceanic crust gets older the further you travel away from the mid-Atlantic ridge, thus proving that the African and South American plates are moving away from each other. This is one of the cornerstones of plate tectonics.

    Are you trying to tell us we should believe in the theories of a you tube poster, who does not provide details of his qualifications on any of his websites or facebook page (indeed he describes himself as a ‘News personality’ first and ‘Scientist’ second on his FB page) and who has never produced a peer reviewed publication in a recognised scientific journal in his life, against the 50 years of published academic study on plate tectonics?

    In your academic / professional career did you ever reference a you tube poster rather than a peer reviewed academic or industry publication?

    It really is a credibility issue and by Dutchsinse posting such nonsense it reduces his credibility to less than zero.

    I will leave the last word on Dutchsinse ability to predict / forecast earthquakes to Dr Stephen Hicks, seismologist at Southampton University, who has previously been quoted on this BB regarding the Surrey earthquakes and who regularly tweets the following:

    Stephen Hicks‏ @seismo_steve Aug 27
    Your weekly Monday reminder that earthquakes can’t be: -Predicted exactly when & where they will occur by *anyone* -“Forecast” by non-qualified charlatans / pseudo-scientists. Spreading fake quake “info” is dangerous. Preparation is key. Listen to your local govt/university agency’.

    He also retweeted the following: EMSC‏Verified account @LastQuake Aug 25
    After every damaging earthquakes, some explain they had predicted them and/or make new predictions. They are just exploiting natural anxiety of the affected people. DO NOT TRUST THEM EARTHQUAKE PREDICTION DOES NOT EXIST.

    [typo corrected at poster’s request]

    • David S

      Good post.

      I think we will see many more such posts as the one you critique, though not on the same subject. It is a moveable feast, and we move on as each conspiracy theory is blown out of the water!

    • Wow! Just wow! So much research for once?

      You guys are so easy!

      You still don’t get it do you? And i explained it to you earlier too? Look at my August 31, 2018 at 6:54 pm post!

      Ask Paul Tresto, he thinks its all a wind up, or is it 100% true?

      Better ask him on that one, so, i just thought i would extend the courtesy back to you guys, but take it as far as i could push it and boy did you all take the bait!

      But instead of taking it as a good joke, you guys get all serious and abusive just because Leith Hill gets the no go signal? And then all those ungrateful little petulant attacks on your long suffering hosts Drill Or Drop? Talk about toys out of the pram? Seriously guys, lighten up, after all, its only a game isnt it? Well, Isn’t it?

      Well guys, how does it feel to be on the receiving end of the “joke”? Are we having fun yet?

      Now THAT is a wind up! Or is it 100% true?

      You will have to live with that one.

      Always a pleasure!

      Have a nice day!

      • Weasel words.
        Your first post with a link to the Dutchsinse site was on August 24th at 11.58am and another on August 30th at 10.15am – or were these both wind-ups as well?
        Do you actually believe this stuff when I have demonstrated that the you tube poster has no basic understanding of geology?
        What if I hadn’t critiqued your post of August 31st at 08.14am pointing out the obvious glaring errors? That post would have been read by those unfamiliar with earth science and taken as fact. [edited by moderator]

      • Chunda Chunda all in the gosunda…..

        All of it and none of it guys, just repaying the smear fear you guys so unscientifically pour out at regular intervals, what’s it like being on the receiving end guys? Lots of fun? Or pure adulterated rage? Well we can all see which it is cant we?

        Practically screaming in rage?

        You guys entire output has been spreading unfounded and unprovable smears about dog poisonings and sabotaging rigs, and fake threats in social media, all clearly carried out by your own industry frack hack fake news propagandists, not to mention the attempt at bringing an underage child with ASD and compromising protection of children laws to try and outrageously score political points.

        We have yet to hear an apology for that.

        Yeah, all scientific stuff guys isnt it? What a total farce!

        What smears do, is to spread false and damning information at a victim that does not even need to be true, and none of it is, because in frack hack heaven, truth is the last thing that you guys want, that must be replaced by these horrible little fake news stories because mud sticks, and that is all you have to offer.

        So i throw something far more interesting about earthquakes at you, mostly just to trip up your crowing from the rooftops and using your same frack hack fake news propagandists to viscously attack and drown out anyone who attempts to object to this filthy industry running slip shod over everyone to satisfy personal and corporate greed.

        Then when that is truly dispicable enough your frack hack fake news propagandists pour out high jacking on your long suffering hosts Drill Or Drop with direct attacks and personal abuse and character assassination attempts to try and discredit the very people who inform you of the facts without bias.

        That is not acceptable guys, it screams of desperation to control the narrative, the same paranoia and desperation we see from the entire UK onshore debacle.

        Then all these pathetic concerted attacks to try and discredit anyone who opposes the corporate high jacking of the UK. Ha! Ha! What a joke!

        Because what really sticks in your overstuffed corporate gullets,and something you refuse ever to mention, is that there is now direct evidence that drilling in sensitively geological zones destabilises and creates weak points in the local crustal structure and extracting out oil and gas and then reinjecting with waste fluids is even more volatile.

        That is what you guys dont want discussed and hence the pathetic debunked debunker and establishment drones to shut it all down to hide the fact that earthquakes reports in oil and gas drilling areas are being deliberately reduced in magnitude and intensity to disguise the effects of drilling extraction and reinjection and geothermal activities in sensitive areas cause direct effects.

        That is what this is really all about, but what do you concentrate on? Some throw away comment on the depth of boreholes and some odd websites! What a joke!

        The day any of you actually produce anything of value other than empty rhetoric and personal attacks on your hosts, it will be the day that rational debate can be entered into, but you guys cant allow that can you? Because the whole industry is based upon pseudo science and the damaging effects of the processes are proven to be severe and poisonous to health and life.

        So this is what it feels like guys, are we having fun yet? You reap what you sow guys, and boy have you been sowing chaff into the wind, now its time to reap the whirlwind.

        Have a good Sunday, why not go down to Leith Hill and enjoy the party? i will and wave the them a cheery fare……well!

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