UK local authority pension funds are estimated to hold £16 billion in fossil fuel investments, according to new analysis published today.
The research, by the climate campaign organisations, Platform and Friends of the Earth, calculated that more than £8 billion invested by the Local Government Pension Scheme (LGPS) was in new oil and gas projects.
This was despite warnings from energy and climate leaders about the investment risks of new oil and gas projects.
These investments were turning “public savings into fossil fuel playthings,” the organisations said.
With most oil and gas companies looking to expand their operations, the campaigners called on pension funds to stop funding fossil fuels.
According to the research, fossil fuel investments by local government pension funds in 2021-2 represented £2,306 for every pension fund member.
The total value of fossil fuel investments was double the total market size of all renewable energy generation in the UK in 2022, the researchers said.
But the analysis found that individual funds took very different approaches to fossil fuel investment.
Of nearly one hundred funds, just two, Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire, had nearly a quarter of local authority fossil fuel investments. These funds held more than £1bn in fossil fuels. Just 10% of all the UK funds held 50% of fossil fuel investment, the analysis found.
The researchers reported that Greater Manchester, East Riding of Yorkshire and Worcestershire invested more than 7% of their fund in fossil fuels.
But more than a fifth of local government pension schemes invested less than 1% of their fund in fossil fuels – a 10-fold increase since 2020, the last time analysis was conducted.
Platform and Friends of the Earth found that pension funds in Wales and London were reducing their investment in fossil fuels faster than anywhere else in the UK. The organisations said this followed pressure from the Welsh government and the London mayor.
In London, fossil fuel investment by local government pension funds was nearly half the national average. The two funds with the lowest proportion of their investments in fossil fuels were from Wales.
Pension funds in England were found to invest nearly 4% of their fund into fossil fuels, compared to just 2% in Wales and London.
Rob Noyes, divestment campaigner and researcher at Platform, said:
“Investments in dirty fossil fuels turn public sector savings into fossil fuel playthings, pumping billions of pounds through the pensions pipeline into climate-wrecking fossil fuels. This money is syphoned from workers’ wages and squandered, when it should be fuelling the green and just transition that we so desperately need. Polluters are profiting at pensioners’ expense. To catch-up on climate, councils must stop using pensions to prop up this deadly industry.”
Jamie Peters, climate coordinator at Friends of the Earth, said:
“From insulating heat-leaking homes to facilitating mass public transport, councils are key to effective climate action, but this is undermined if local authority pension funds continue to fund fossil fuels. It’s time to ditch financially risky holdings in gas, coal and oil, and invest in accelerating the transformation to a carbon-free future.”
In September 2023, the head of the International Energy Agency, Fatih Birol, warned countries and companies planning to expand fossil fuel production that they were taking “very unhealthy and unwise economic risks” because investments may not be profitable.
In June 2023, the Climate Change Committee, which advises the government, said expansion of fossil fuel production was “not in line” with the UK’s net zero plans.
Methodology
The researchers sent freedom of information requests to all UK LGPS for fossil fuel investments in the financial year 2021-2.
Where data was not provided, they collected information by analysing publicly-available documents, including annual reports and pension fund committee meeting minutes. The data collected represents 75% of the total UK LGPS.
Data on activities upstream oil and gas companies was collected from the Global Oil and Gas Exit List (GOGEL). This provides data on more than 900 companies, covering 95% of oil and gas production, 97% of oil and gas short-term upstream expansion and 95% of oil and gas capital expenditure.
Data on coal-producing companies was collected from the Global Coal Exit List (GCEL).
The UK LGPS investments were screened for fossil fuels by matching International Security Identifiers (ISINs) for each asset to fossil fuel companies in the GCEL and GOGEL databases. ISINs are 12-digit codes which are used to uniquely identify public investment, such as equities and bonds traded on global stock exchanges. If assets did not have an ISIN, they were excluded from the analysis.
The researchers said pension funds in Wales provided less data than other funds, which meant a lower proportion of these funds were screened for fossil fuels.
DRILL OR DROP? 
As if the antis are not satisfied with adding £6k/year to every household (the estimated cost of Net Zero), they now want to mess with your pension! Mess with your own pension.
As most pension schemes now offer an opt out, where the employee can decide to have an alternative pension, let the individual make their own choice-and pay the consequences. Goodness, they could always plonk all their money into Tesla to be met by a comment by Musk that perhaps his product is just too expensive and the share price tumbling as a result! LOL. Remember Maxwell when considering others getting their sticky fingers upon your ability to eat and heat in old age.
Meanwhile, it is interesting to note how DoD continues to invest in fossil fuels. Seems that those against fossil fuels find them necessary to make the point they are against them. Then, they are also not against them when they look to eat or require medical assistance. Such is life, or not.
Meanwhile, if you may be a pensioner, the dividends from the oil and gas companies look such a bad investment currently????? I really wonder if any of the vested groups who make such comments about such matters have any knowledge about what is actually happening in the real world. I did like the gambling picture. Why not gamble on Tesla or on wind turbines that keep on breaking down?
Good job a pensioner now has far more ability to modify their pension, not only during the time they pay into it, but also when they are drawing from it.
Must move on. Off to get my vaccinations this am. Wonder what the nurse would say if I asked for a fossil fuel free version? Probably refer me to psychiatric support.
I am
Hello Mr Collyer,
It is possible to acknowledge that oil and gas are essential for most aspects of living and still be against the despoliation of the British countryside, you know. That is my position.
UK homeowners are absolutely right to point to other countries with less valuable and beautiful land, and to the continental shelf and say: “Explore for oil and gas there, please, not here”.
Hello Una-Jane:
Well Nimbys are what they are. You “am”. However, that has nothing at all to do with pension pots. Although you could plonk a load of money into Shell as they have little activity in the UK and still pay out pretty nicely to UK pensioners. However, what that also means is that they pay tax over the horizon on overseas activity and little in UK. The less tax UK industry pays the more the UK individual pays.
I would also remind you the importation of oil and gas produces emissions through the process.
I would rather wind turbines do not despoil the UK countryside but it would appear they are somehow invisible to a number of people. The number of on shore oil wells is and will be tiny in comparison to the numbers of wind turbines and solar farms.
Nice to see though you support the N.Sea round of licensing.
UNA-JANE WINFIELD,
Please don’t be swayed by the ” OPINIONS ” of MARTIN as that’s all they ever are, ” OPINIONS ” backed up with nothing.
MARTIN in HIS/HER fantastical quest to push highly toxic industries like Fracking on UK citizens , fails to inform you of the PROVEN toxic dangers and costs. .
Breast Cancer Action , Fracking dangers
https://www.bcaction.org/the-root-causes-of-breast-cancer/our-fossil-fuel-work/dont-frack-with-our-health/
Fracking, CHILDREN AT RISK OF CANCER … study by the prestigious YALE SCHOOL of Public Health.
https://news.yale.edu/2022/08/17/proximity-fracking-sites-associated-risk-childhood-cancer
Premature DEATH risk for the elderly
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/27/people-living-closer-us-oil-and-gas-wells-higher-risk-dying-prematurely-study
SO please ignore MARTINS Collywaffle about ” Nimbys ” the proof about the Fracking dangers are clear and present .
MARTIN ,
Are the people that would be living in close proximity to a Fracking site ” NIMBYS ” because they are concerned about the collapse I their home values ?????
https://www.hbdonline.co.uk/news/estate-agents-warn-fracking-will-hit-house-values/
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2016/12/16/fear-of-fracking-affects-house-prices-in-the-uk/
https://www.nationalhomebuyers.co.uk/fracking-sites-affecting-buyer-interest-surrounding-homes/
LET’S face it MARTIN , an ugly , dangerous , toxic Fracking site is not like living next door to the Hanging Gardens Of Babylon …
NASA scientists
Fracking fuels CLIMATE CHANGE
MARTIN , don’t you care about your grandchildrens future ?????
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/nasa-study-fracking-global-warming-0fa0c5b5f5c7/
Burning of fossil fuels and other greenhouse gas emissions
RAPID ICE MELT a lot worse than expected.. 5 METRE sea level rise
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/23/rapid-ice-melt-in-west-antarctica-now-inevitable-research-shows
Maybe MARTIN , could provide us , down to the nearest £ TRILLION what the cost around the world will be for costal communities and low lying land with a 5 METRE sea leval rise .
The Anti’s a socials state whingers, not entirely satisfied until the UK population is living in mud huts and heating and cooking with horse manure! I dare the energy industry to switch off fossil fuel energy and ban the NHS from using anything derived from fossil fuels, and I assure you fossil fuels will be here to stay and there with be riots in the street against the middle classes for this delusional ‘ leave it in the ground crew’! Storm Babet has just ravaged the UK from north to south, and fossil fuels have been here to get the country back on its feet! No solar, wind or wave can defeat Fossil Fuels, 1 week switch off fossil fuels, and you’ll see the UK on its knees!
Well, once again Jack wants to enter the discussion but seems to be confused regarding the subject!
I believe it was something about investments into pensions, in UK.
However, Jack had his/her/it’s prepared dishes to foist upon the readers. Think you will find Jack that fracking is precluded in UK, but of course if someone wants to invest in fracking to secure their pensions there is Chesapeake Energy or Pioneer in USA or Tesla if one wishes to risk an odd comment from Mr. Musk. As they say, you pays your money and makes your choice. Jack seems a bit sore about his choices.
Except some would prefer they make the choice for you, and when it all goes wrong will be waffling on about something else. My grandchildren’s future is not your problem, Jack. You look after what you can look after. Apparently, you still want to use fossil fuels and have no experience of EVs, so see next paragraph.
Good to see though Jack you continue to support the use of fossil fuels. As the Guardian states, Jack: “If you want to live a life rich in meaning, first you must learn to do nothing.”
Una-Jane-there is your problem. With that sort of associated nonsense waffle, any serious Nimby comment will be submerged. You will be pleased that my jabs were no problem and the plastic syringes seemed to function very smoothly. The probability of me dying without them is a lot greater than rising sea levels submerging me. From previous, Jack is an anti vaxer, so one can see some rather strange contradiction about caring for grandchildren’s futures, but nothing needs to add up in fantasy land.
Going back to pensions, and particular public sector pensions, perhaps take a look at the efficiency with which the public sector invest money! If there was ever a key reason for professional Trustees of pension funds, that is one.
NOT confused at all MARTIN ,
You made reference to ” NIMBYS ”
As you are a fanatical PRO-FRACKER , JACK who incidentally is living well within a previously proposed Fracking fall out zone , questioned if such people as myself are as you put it are ” NIMBYS ” for not wanting to increase their chances of Cancer , premature death or to see their homes plumit in value .
Well MARTIN , is JACK a ” NIMBY ? ??????.
Whilst I have your attention , I ask again, would you like to discuss Fracking and THE DIRTY DOZEN ????
What are you emailing at 1:50am wee boy jack?! Fanatical pro-fracker??!! You an extremist anti fossil fueller!
[Edited by moderator]
Yes, Jack, you are confused. Una-Jane made her point quite clearly and I was discussing that with her. I disagreed with her point which was that of a classic Nimby-many of us have been one in many respects-as the industrialization of the UK countryside is far more obvious from solar and wind monstrosities than it would ever be from a few on shore UK sites for fossil fuel. Perfectly okay for a Nimby to take such a position but it just doesn’t add up. I know where a number of sites are in UK, and know people who live close by-including myself. Most of them are unaware of them being there, and those that are find them no more an issue than other things that happen in their locality.
I am afraid Una-Jane you have a bigger problem than me pointing out the contradiction within your Nimbyism. You have more issues with those who seek their own platforms.
Wherever you live Jack, you seem unaware that people in UK have seen the value of their homes PLUMMET in value as they are unable to spend on mortgages and expensive energy. I have just had my property valued by three estate agents and they all say the same thing. (That’s okay, as what I may purchase will have adjusted also.) If I lived in areas of East Anglia they would also tell me the value of my house has plummeted due to new electricity pylons planned to cut through! School teachers would tell me that children are being moved to alternative schools. Land owners who had taken years to develop a rich natural habitat on their land would tell me that it was now going to be trashed. All before that huge danger of the forest fires seen in USA are added in. You know the ones, Jack. The ones that have destroy properties, killed many people and sent huge clouds of cancer causing compounds into the atmosphere. After all Jack, what is reported to happen in USA is what will happen in UK-according to Jack. Heaven help us regarding Three Mile Island.
I would ask you again to discuss electricity distribution and the DIRTY MORE THAN A DOZEN, except as I observed your nonsense already about EDF not requiring the UK electricity customers to fund their investment in new UK nuclear when details are already in the public domain for Hinkley, I would just expect more of your knowing little about most things.
I live next to a road Jack. Shock/horror. I am viewing all the vehicles rushing their passengers to work. Goodness Jack, I am at risk of premature death!! Then, I could become an anti vaxer and risk it some more. (Although I have a pension from one of the vaccine manufacturers, so perhaps not.) Then there is my electricity pole in my garden which has a warning sign on it about risking premature death. However Jack, my gas boiler AND my heat pump are running and I am thankfully mitigating against a premature death from the cold. Shame that here in the UK this very coming winter there will be many less fortunate. Shame that millions around the world risk premature death from starvation that would be prevented by enough wheat, whilst wheat is plonked into fuel tanks in rich countries because fools think it makes a difference to anything other than their bank accounts, and their neighbours food shop bills. Shame many more will risk premature death when the fertilizer runs out.
As with most of your stuff Jack, and similar offerings, it doesn’t add up. Propaganda rarely does. The bit that saves much effort is when it is admitted as propaganda.
[Edited by moderator]
Full on diversionary tactics and endless reams of waffle , whilst totally avoiding to acknowledge the proven dangers of Fracking that I have highlighted in the form of LINKS by reputable world leading organizations and by qualified people who are not afraid to put their REAL NAMES behind what they say
Thank you for NOTHING MARTIN, your ” OPINION ” on the matter has been duly noted
PS ……… When are you going to discuss the 12 deadly dangers of Fracking ????? MARTIN , when are you going to discuss with JACK , Fracking and THE DIRTY DOZEN.???????
Fully refreshed, Jack?
But, still unable to comprehend what this discussion was about. Like an errant cook bringing some “he” made earlier, and producing a bowl of cereal for a dinner party!
However, to bring it back from your fantasies to reality, I note ANOTHER big purchase-this time Hess by Chevron, following the one by ExxonMobil for Pioneer.
Seems shareholders support such moves against those companies “transitioning”.
Since 2020 shares in BP have underperformed Exxon by 44% and Chevron by 23%, whilst Shell has lagged behind by 38% and 16%.
Of course Jack you could always invest in US electricity distribution outfits that then get huge fines for causing forest fires and the consequences thereof.
I know where I would like my pension to focus. If it doesn’t then I change it. Simples. For the public sector, you are expected to not even be allocated the also rans! Good luck. Green with envy comes to mind-plus blue with cold.
MARTIN PLEASE , enough of the diversionary Collywaffle .
I can see that you are choosing to ignore the conclusive evidence I’ve put forward in my above LINKS and instead trying to steer the conversation away once again …… We can ALL see what your trying to do old chap / old lady 🤣
As your above post mainly focuses on financial matters , then let’s talk money .
Ok NUMBER CRUNCHER , please inform JACK and the readers the financial cost to costal communities and low lying areas within the UK with a 5 METRE sea level rise ??????? To make it simple for you , please round the overall cost to the nearest £ 100 BILLION
Then NUMBER CRUNCHER, please inform JACK and the readers what the overall ANNUAL cost to the planet will be with a 5 METRE sea level rise . Yet again , JACK will make it simple for you , just round it off to the nearest £ TRILLION. .
Can you also explain what countries like the UK will do as BILLIONS of people move from flooded and scorched parts of the world to countries like the UK ….. What will that annual cost be ????????
In this century ALONE the ANTARCTIC ICE will be melting at ” 3 TIMES ” the rate as to what has been previously predicted..
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/23/rapid-ice-melt-in-west-antarctica-now-inevitable-research-shows
🤣 OH DEAR, OH DEAR MARTIN ,
I see your back to one of your old pet hates again , the nasty ” electricity distribution network in the USA .
🤣 Well it may of escaped your mind but we don’t live in the USA , this is Great Britain…. Nevertheless I will indulge you on this topic once AGAIN ….. Notice the word AGAIN ,as we have been through this countless times before .
Your above Collywaffle says , quote , ” Of course Jack you could always invest in US electricity distribution outfits that then get huge fines for causing forest fires and the consequences thereof.”
In the USA they are still distributing electricity throughout large areas of the country using outdated 19th century methods.. Sticking high voltage cables on the top of wooden poles 🤣
Record breaking summer temperatures due to CLIMATE CHANGE not only will cause these overhead cables to heat up more , the increased demand in electricity , running such things as air conditioners can cause these cables to overheat , increasing the risk of fires .
Tinder Dry forests due to record breaking hot , dry summers will only add to the possibility of forest fires where these cables pass through .
What are you suggesting MARTIN , go back to Gas Street Lights and Steam Traction Engines 🤣 ??????
OH and I must add to the above , the increase ferocity of storms in the USA will only add to the possibility of these OLD wooden electricity distribution poles being blown down causing an increased risk of forest fires
MARTIN , What about toxic Fracking , and THE DIRTY DOZEN ???????? When can we talk about the proven Fracking dangers ?????
You have still failed to understand the subject matter, and can not understand when it is explained to you, so I can see why you are confused and produce so much nonsense. That is not my problem Jack. It is yours and those you feel necessary to group into your lack of thinking. Maybe there is a reason why others ignore your posts-according to yourself Jack. Doesn’t look as if there is a very large Group to Not Think.
High voltage cables on top of wooden poles?? Just like in the UK, Jack. Oh dear Jack, which cave is it you live in? I have one of those outside of my own property, in UK. Most in UK will be familiar with them. OMG we are doomed, especially when all those heat pumps are drawing so much electricity that it would appear (LOL) there will be flaming poles and forests everywhere. Must be true Jack, as you have stated that is the case in USA and what happens in USA is your mantra for what happens in UK.
How many more areas for you to demonstrate your absolute ignorance, Jack?
Sorry Una- Jane that you have to have such eroding your cause, but again that is not my problem. So called concerned UK citizens who then demonstrate such ignorance of the UK may be concerning but hardly convincing.
My “above post mainly focused on financial matters”. Well, Jack, that is the subject that Ruth took her time to produce, so nice of you to notice I was aware of that and discussing that. So why your confusion with who it was introducing diversionary stuff? Pretty evident, and even the diversion ended in a swamp.
No MARTIN ,
YOU HAVE ” failed ” to grasp the enormity and the dire consequences of climate collapse and how it will effect the world’s population.
YOU have ” failed ” to show concern or empathy for the people who will directly suffer with the proven toxic and financial consequences of living near a Fracking site.
YOU have ” failed ” to show a single shred of evidence to back up any of your ” OPINIONS ”
YOU have” failed ” to give a constructive plan as to how humanity can alter its course away from the impending catastrophe it faces …. Your policy is one of BURN BABY , BURN those fossil fuels ….. At every opportunity you churn out Wild Off-The-Cuff , negative comments about the green industry without showing a single shred of evidence to back up your ” OPINIONS ”
YOU have ” failed ” to engage JACK with meaningful conversation concerning the dangers of Fracking… I am a concerned resident who stands to be in a toxic Fracking zone , should people like you get their own way ….. WHY won’t you discuss the 12 Fracking dangers , why won’t you talk about Fracking and THE DIRTY DOZEN ??????
AND MARTIN ,
PLEASE REFRESH JACK and the readers memory
How MANY FOREST FIRES , linked directly to the electricity distribution network have there been in the UK ?????
I do know that your ONLY concern to date , has been so called forest fires in the USA .. As your above comment states , I QUOTE , ” US electricity distribution outfits that then get huge fines for causing forest fires and the consequences thereof.”.
YES MARTIN , in a few parts of the UK , we still use 19th century technology , wooden telegraph poles with cables on top to distribute electricity….. What’s your point ??????
MARTIN , again I ask , do you want the UK to go back to the dark ages , powering street lights by gas , Surgical operating theatres lit by paraffin lamps ….. What’s your gripe with the electricity distribution network???????
Oh, I see Jack. What is reported to happen in USA now doesn’t happen in UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, Jack, AT LAST you have seen the light. Let us rejoice but let us worry that so much energy has been wasted over such a long time by JACK trying to claim the opposite. The DIRTY DOZEN is irrelevant to the UK then, dead, deceased, expired-or never even existed. You appear to be on the wrong platform, Jack.
Goodness Jack, you have so much confusion within your life. Interesting you share it with others, but sorry I do not share your confusion. Please Jack, for the avoidance of premature death, avoid any areas of the world with quicksand, as you would blunder headlong into it with very little encouragement.
Your uninformed adjustment regarding UK electricity distribution is just another stab in the dark, Jack. A few parts of the UK? You really don’t have any knowledge of what reality is in UK. Unresearched ignorance. [Edited by moderator]
Any “concerned UK citizen” should be aware what those millions of wooden poles across the UK do, Jack. So, either you wish to change UK reality or you are unaware of it. There are others in that category but are they taken seriously? Nope.
[Edited by moderator]
NO MARTIN ,
Splitting hairs old chap / old lady won’t work on this one …. It’s clear that only the very simplest of explanations is needed for you to understand…
Fracking has been PROVEN to be highly toxic and dangerous to human and animal health ..
t has been PROVEN to greatly increase climate change and be dangerous to the environment..
It has been PROVEN to pollute water Aquifers..
It has been PROVEN to devalue house prices in Fracking areas..
IF YOU DISAGREE with anything I’ve said , just say . I’d be delighted to produce the evidence.
There is also a point that the readers must also take note off… Fracking uses MILLIONS of litres of fresh water . In our now unpredictable weather , there will be a greater chance of water restrictions for ordinary consumers . With Fracking companies demanding high volumes of fresh water this will only add to the problem of water shortages.
WHAT about the millions of litres of highly toxic wastewater , what will happen to that …. Will it be quietly dumped in canals ??????? It’s happened once before with Caudrillas wastewater …. Quietly dumped in to the Manchester Ship Canal .
To add to the above , continual light and noise pollution from Fracking sites in densely populated UK areas 24 hours a day and the ENDLESS noisy HGV truck movements that also will damage roads and pavements.
The process of pumping MILLIONS of LITRES of water laced with highly toxic CANCEROGENIC chemicals in to the ground at pressures on excess 10,000 psi ( please note your car tyre pressure is about 32 psi ) its not going to take a rocket scientist to work out the problems of toxic chemical migration here .
FINALLY what about the continual financial and environmental burden for future generations maintaining orphaned / abandoned wells ….. Plugging abandoned wells with cement is a JOKE …. HOW LONG do you think this will last before it begins to break down ???????
JUST LOOK at the TOXIC , EXPENSIVE LEGACY of abandoned wells
https://www.wesa.fm/environment-energy/2021-08-01/why-its-so-hard-and-expensive-to-plug-an-abandoned-well.
WHY WOULD ANYONE with more than the intelligence of an EARTHWORM want this PROVEN nightmare in their towns or villages???????
FOSSIL FUELS are responsible for 73% of the world’s Green House Gas emissions and you ” MARTIN ” want to introduce this ENERGY INTENSIVE scrape the bottom of the fossil fuel barrel process , otherwise known as Fracking to our densely populated land here in the UK ….. What’s the matter with you ??????
If you want to learn more about Fracking MARTIN and the type of equipment used , I’ve put a LINK below
https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/how-shale-fracking-enabled-massive-pumping-system
Dirty Dozen is deceased Jack. R.I.Pieces.
You killed them off yourself yesterday-or someone using your name did. You clearly indicated what is reported in USA is irrelevant to UK.
Then, after doing that you decided to share your “knowledge” regarding UK electricity distribution. That was also a disaster.
Sorry Jack, you have as much credibility left as a chocolate teapot. Don’t blame me for noticing what is posted in your name, it is not me doing your posting.
[Edited by moderator] Some UK forests could be a good investment in a pension Jack. Here it comes…..
The ones that supply millions of poles for electricity distribution!
MARTIN , are you for real ?????
Seriously is that the very best you can do ??????
YOU personally are trying to push a proven , highly toxic, dangerous , costly industry on UK citizens and when challenged you have ,ZILCH , NOTHING, NOWT to put up in defense of the industry.
When I clearly show you the indisputable evidence concerning the dangers of Fracking , YOU choose to either go quiet , go in to full diversionary mode or churn out a whole pile of unrelated Collywaffle.
I sincerely hope the readers fully grasp the situation here.
In not trying to directly challenge the evidence I’ve put forward ..
It gives myself and the readers good reason to believe that YOU know this industry is riddled with problems , but that you dont care about the health and safety of the general public … YOU dont care about the environment … You don’t care about climate change … YOU don’t care about the expensive toxic legacy that would be left for future generations….. YOU don’t care about the steep drop in property values for those living in Fracking areas
WHY is that MARTIN .????? Are you one of those who’s lost the shirt of their backs with their IGAS ( now Star Energy ) investment????? … Are you a deeply bitter person , desperate to try and claw back your heavy losse at ANY COST ???????
These are people’s life’s that are being put at risk .
Come on MARTIN , I challenge you to stand by your beliefs . Let’s here and now fully debate the Pros and Cons of Fracking .
.
Quite simple Jack, as you stated yesterday, and I repeat it as you seem to be in a confused loop:
What is reported in USA is irrelevant in UK.
Carry on arguing-WITH YOURSELF. Sorry that you have so much difficulty convincing YOURSELF, but it would be rude of me to intrude into such a fantasy world.
What I care about is unknown to yourself, Jack. I suggest you wait until which of your personas has won the argument before you decide to speculate upon others.
Jack, I would just point out to you two little FACTS you appear to be ignorant about:
Firstly, you have zero chance of preventing fracking continuing in USA.
Secondly, fracking is precluded in UK.
Surely you could find something real to fill your time?
MARTIN are you for real,
Again , I ask for the readers , please address the serious points raised in my above post .
The scraping the bottom of the fossil fuel barrel process, otherwise known as Fracking has been PROVEN to be a highly energy-intensive process, that is dangerous to human and animal health, environmentally damaging, climate changing , it devalues homes in Fracking areas and leaves a toxic financial burden for future generations.
If there is anything you dispute , please say , as I will be delighted to fill this page with evidence and FULLY expose you as a person who only ever gives an OPINION backed up with nothing.
In response to your ridiculous above comment , let me make this super simple for you to understand..
MILLIONS of litres of fresh drinking water laced with highly toxic CANCEROGENIC chemicals pumped underground at pressures of around 10,000 psi ( your car tyre is inflated to around 32 psi ) Where do you think these toxic chemicals could migrate to ??????
My above post clearly lists the problems associated with Fracking , why are you ignoring these proven dangers ???????.
Fracking whether it is done in the USA the UK or ” TIMBUKTU ” is done by EXACTLY the same method …. GEEEE MARTIN this is nursery school stuff , are you that nieave or lacking in knowledge on the subject ???????
If you want to learn more about Fracking MARTIN and the type of equipment used , I’ve put a LINK below
https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/how-shale-fracking-enabled-massive-pumping-system
You should have gone to a better nursery school, Jack!!!
[Edited by moderator]
Meanwhile, the gas price peaked at $7 in USA against $47 in Europe. Your response? DENIAL. Except the Internet can be used for information Jack, by all-other than yourself.
Meanwhile, yesterday I received my notification of £500 winter fuel payment to supplement my pension, as will many people Jack HERE IN UK. Where has that come from? “Government money”!!?? Nope. Taxation of UK oil and gas production, redistributed. Sorry folks without that you can freeze. Oh I forgot, just borrow some more. Anyone note the current cost of borrowing?
Let some antis explain to those who enjoy the £500 where the £500 would come from without UK production of fossil fuel. It would be akin to where to find a unicorn. Let them explain how every UK household will find their £6k/year to fund Net Zero. Jack’s answer to date? Oh yes, the French will pay a chunk of it? Unicorns.
Antis should invest in plastic buckets. The ones they have are full of holes.
Jack, I hate to give you the bad news but the only reason readers get involved with your discussions is to correct the many errors of FACT.
As you have indicated Jack, what is reported to happen in USA does not happen in UK. R.I.Pieces Dirty Dozen. Terrible case of infanticide Jack, but “we” know who did it-see 24/10.
MARTIN ,
What’s all this Collywaffle your churning out ???????
Please Supply the evidence to support the current gas prices of $7 USA and $47 EU
NO MARTIN ,if widespread Fracking was carried out in the UK it certainly wouldn’t fund your £500 Winter fuel allowance and it certainly wouldn’t come from Fracking hopeful INEOS,
owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe, as he left the UK for the tax haven Monaco .
As Fracking ihas been proven to increase the risk of Cancer, no doubt any tax revenue raised would be taken up funding the NHS , treating a surge in Cancer patients..
[Edited by moderator]
INEOS HQ is in LONDON, UK. Perhaps best not to go down that rabbit hole as OBVIOUSLY the more activity INEOS has in UK the more UK tax it is subjected to. Where it fracks, in USA, it pays tax in USA. You presumably missed the recent warning by INEOS that without adequate feedstock for Grangemouth the plants would not be viable. A lot of well paid jobs there and a lot of UK taxation.
(If you like, Jack, I could offer you some interesting FACTS about the digestive systems of rabbits, but I recall you had such problems with pigeons that might be a step too far! Suffice it to say they consume their own faeces. I shy away from making any further connection!)
Your nursery obviously didn’t teach you to read with any accuracy either. Peaked and current are two different words, Jack, with two different meanings. Maybe I should add to peaked-“so far”? Silly trick attempted by Jack that would fool no one. Why do you have to attempt such tricks? Because you have to deny reality. Sorry, Una-Jane but such defines some of the moths drawn to this flame. It is fascinating to watch, but the outcome is pretty obvious. Taking note of this, to coin a phrase, good luck!
[Edited by moderator]
OK MARTIN ,
FIRST OF ALL ,
I would like to ” THANK YOU ” from the bottom of my heart for services rendered … At every opportunity you have tirelessly worked to give the ANTI-Fracking movement a continual platform to fully expose the dangers of Fracking on the Drill Or Drop pages .
You have enthusiastically , continually demonstrated how little Fracking has to offer whilst it exposes local communities and the environment to serious dangers.
YOU personally have worked wonders in bringing to the forefront of people’s minds these dangers that have been quietly brushed under the carpet by the industry….. ( BRAVO MARTIN )
I take note that in your above post you do NOT want to acknowledge the evidence I’ve put forward and instead are trying to divert the conversion away ” AGAIN ” from the very difficult questions I’ve leveled at you ….. A point that won’t be lost on the readers ( Thank You )
I’m going to cut straight through your diversionary Collywaffle as we have endlessly been through through the things you’ve mentioned above ( VERY VERY RECENTLY ) and on EACH occasion you’ve been on the ROPES ….. I’m surprised how you continually want to keep exposing to the readers how you can dramatically lose a debate on so many fronts ….. Don’t forget MARTIN it’s the readers that matter most and they have all bared witnesses to these debates on sooooo many previous occasions that the results will be permanently etched o their minds ( Thank You )
AGAIN I WILL ASK
Don’t you care about the increased risks of CANCER in children ???????
The increased risk to pregnant mothers ????????
The risk of early death in the elderly ??????????
Don’t you care about the increased
risk of Breast Cancer in woman ???????
I WILL ALSO ADD
Don’t you care about how Fracking greatly fuels Climate Change ???????
Don’t you care how Fracking is Environment Damaging ????????
Don’t you care how living in a Fracking area greatly reduces the value of your home ????????
Don’t you care how Fracking may make your home difficult and costly to Insure ????????
Don’t you care how Fracking leaves a toxic , costly financial burden fir future generations maintaining abandoned/orphaned wells ???????
TO NAME BUT A FEW OF THE ” DANGERS.”
If you dispute any of the above please ,PLEASE say , as I will be delighted to once again , be given the opportunity to fill these pages with EVIDENCE.
MARTIN , first let me thank you for what I can only assume is a deep concern for my sleep pattern , you and ELI-GOTH I’m sure only have my best interests at heart…… YES hands up , that was JACK posting at 2.43am
It’s clear with your above response that you do NOT wish to challenge any of the evidence I’ve put forward regarding the toxic , environmental, climate changing dangers of Fracking… Taking note of this , can we now assume that you have accepted these Fracking dangers do exist ?????
Taking note of this , I would expect that ANY NORMAL HUMAN BEING with an ounce of decency and humanity would not now continue trying to push such a toxic industry on the British public .
MARTIN ,
Please take carefully note , that I will continue to hammer home the 12 toxic , financial , environmental and climate changing dangers of Fracking .. I will therefore continue to question you about Fracking and THE DIRTY DOZEN…
On the positive side , I would like to personally ” THANK YOU ” for continually allowing JACK to expose these dangers , whilst highlighting how a keen PRO-Fracker has zero , zilch, nothing to back up their stand on the matter ……. YOUR lack of concern to acknowledge what qualified people / organizations have to say on the dangers of Fracking is highly revealing as to what sort of person you are ..
A point that won’t be lost on the readers.
Now MARTIN , in all your above reams of diversionary Collywaffle , you’ve forgotten to respond to these serious WARNINGS on the dangers of Fracking
Will YOU again be pretending not to have seen this evidence , or be trying to divert the conversion with unrelated Collywaffle on things like (1) Jeremy Corbyn ,(2) UNITE (3) Pigeons to name a few ?????????
Breast Cancer Action , Fracking dangers
https://www.bcaction.org/the-root-causes-of-breast-cancer/our-fossil-fuel-work/dont-frack-with-our-health/
Fracking, CHILDREN AT RISK OF CANCER … study by the prestigious YALE SCHOOL of Public Health.
https://news.yale.edu/2022/08/17/proximity-fracking-sites-associated-risk-childhood-cancer
Premature DEATH risk for the elderly
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/27/people-living-closer-us-oil-and-gas-wells-higher-risk-dying-prematurely-study
PLEASE REMEMBER , when providing JACK and the readers a response , please provide credible evidence with LINKS to your source
Failure to supply such evidence will render your comments as nothing more than wild off-the-cuff ” OPINIONS “
MARTIN ,
YOUR diversionary Collywaffle is as plain to see as the nose on your face …..
🤣 What on EARTH has Doctors wanting a pay rise got to do with their qualified, PROVEN studies that clearly show the dangers of Fracking ?????????
Your bizarre approach when trying to promote your much loved Fracking industry , will no doubt be a great source of mild amusement to the readers .
Your reason for ZERO faith in doctors In the USA is unjustified and beyond compression ( laughable and unfounded ) Another one of your wild Off-The-Cuff OPINIONS backed up with nothing
I STRONGLY DISPUTE AND CHALLENGE YOU to show where I said the USA is different to the UK on Fracking …… That is a BARE FACED FABRICATION of the TRUTH .
OK MARTIN , so for whatever bizarre reason you only are concerned with what UK medical and scientific professionals have to say , are you ????????
WELL WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE ” LINK ” BELOW ????????
From the British Medical Journal ( BMJ ) all warning about the dangers of Fracking
https://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g2728/rr
Well MARTIN , what have you got to say ????????
MARTIN , about your concern as to who will be helping to cover your £500 Winter fuel allowance
Let JACK enlighten you on this subject.
Regarding INEOS , sorry mate , I can’t see your winter fuel allowance coming from this gentleman.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/17/brexiter-jim-ratcliffe-uk-richest-man-plans-save-4bn-pounds-tax-monaco-move
[typo corrected at poster’s request]
Goodness Jack, the shorter your posts one might expect less errors! Unfortunately not.
The Guardian, in support of Unite, (see history of that nasty little feud) referred to a potential plan. It happened to be associated with the possibility of Corbyn becoming UK PM. I think you will find just about any sensible UK business was considering how they would extract themselves from that situation. (Apart from the Guardian, who appeared to welcome the possibility.)
In the event, Jack, neither HAPPENED. INEOS has it’s HQ in London. Sir Jim still has multiple houses around the world, and last time I looked, in the process of adding another in UK. Whether INEOS continues with London HQ depends upon many considerations, as with all International businesses. Perhaps, if Sir Jim is successful with Man. Utd. that will have more impact than many other considerations. Goodness Jack, what a thought as you have previously suggested membership of an organization dictates those members support all of the organizations decisions!
The “concerned UK citizen” once again fails to show any knowledge regarding the UK. Nice of you to offer your interest in UK Jack, but it would have some semblance of merit if you actually had any knowledge about the UK. So many times you have shown that you don’t, yet so many times you come back with more of the same. Not sure whether there should be an award for consistency, or just astonishment that such a very obvious and evident trend is so freely offered.
Do try and get some sleep this weekend Jack, and/or adjust your algorithm. More instances of it ain’t working.
🤣 OH dear MARTIN , there you go again with you baseless Collywaffle.
🤣 So it’s now the turn of UNITE to get the wrath of your bitterness and play their part in what is now known as your legendary , diversionary Collywaffle tactics..
So you don’t take on board what the Guardian Newspaper says because YOU feel they are in some way supportive of UNITE ….
Well it’s a good job your old buddy JACK is here to supply you with more evidence ..,
Regarding INEOS and UK Fracking …. As I said above , I can’t see your winter fuel allowance coming from this gentleman..
Maybe the evidence coming from this source will be more acceptable to you .
THIS MONEY
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-8773629/Ineos-boss-Sir-Jim-Ratcliffe-escapes-Monaco-tax-haven.html
Or maybe the DAILY MAIL
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8773527/UK-billionaire-quits-Britain-Sir-Jim-Ratcliffe-moves-tax-free-Monaco.html
Or maybe you will prefer to believe what the INDEPENDENT says
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jim-ratcliffe-monaco-tax-avoidance-billionaire-ineos-john-mcdonnell-a8783626.html
Don’t get me wrong MARTIN , I’m not knocking Sir Jim Ratcliffe, I think he is a very clever , smart businessman who is working within the law ..
Just don’t start banging on about how in someway , UK Fracking companies will be LINING UP to help pay your £500 winter fuel allowance , because they won’t.
I think you will find Jack I was explaining what the accurate picture was regarding INEOS HQ. It is in London, UK.
[Edited by moderator] You appear to think your link gave some clarity, but it did not at all. The HQ of INEOS is in London. It has not always been, and may not be in the future.
So, having killed off your Dirty Dozen YOURSELF, YOU establish your links are not worth the plastic they are posted upon. You have enough problem with your own statements Jack, misquoting mine will not provide a big enough smokescreen for that. I have made no claim that UK fracking companies will be lining up to pay my winter fuel allowance Jack. Fracking is precluded in UK! You are the one who has been banging on to try and get a debate going about something that is precluded in UK. In reality, Jack, I am more interested in what amounts of money Sir Jim will continue to invest in nice restaurants in UK to enable me to spend some of my pension income-fortunately that I control, rather than some activists. The irony is that some others I help can afford to eat at the restaurants, but I can’t! In respect of fracking, it will be US citizens who actually benefit from INEOS fracking taxation. Oh dear Jack, surely there is a link missing from your library. Citizens benefiting from fracking, OMG! I await your renewal of what happens in US doesn’t or couldn’t happen in UK-unless Jack decides it would. I await the huge costs to those citizens-except with Texas alone enjoying a larger economy than Russia, it is all relative.
(I would just remind you Jack that before fracking was precluded in UK, UK fracking companies were actually proposing offering some people some serious help with their energy bills. You denied it at the time, and it never got off the ground before it was precluded, but the proposal was there.)
I am afraid I have nothing like the amounts of money to manage that Sir Jim has worked to obtain. However, like most people in UK Jack, after paying taxes I am required to do, and after helping others, what little I have left I think I am better at managing than Big Brother. Shock/horror, if I have an opportunity I use an ISA, which avoids Big Brother getting some tax but it was Big Brother who set up the system! When Big Brother shows it is capable of managing the money I give them in required taxes then I might be inclined to change my approach and give them what is not required, but I am not holding my breath for that day. If Big Brother sold me a product or advised me to buy a product and then tried to charge me a lot more a few years later (diesel cars), or a license that I was then precluded from utilizing, then it would only tend to re-enforce me not holding my breath.
Last time I looked, Man. Utd. were based in UK. So, it looks as if Sir Jim is still inclined to spend quite a lot of his wealth here in UK, in addition to the charities supported. If you feel he shouldn’t, argue that with Man. Utd. supporters. Good luck with that. Crazy really, that someone brought up in an area should go away make some money and wish to invest it back into the area! Nice decision for the Guardian-are there more potential readers who support Man. Utd or more who support individuals not having the money to invest in Man. Utd. I believe Corbyn and Starmer are Arsenal supporters, which has long been associated with their supporters being “bankers”. Funny old world, isn’t it?
MARTIN ,
Please take carefully note , that I will continue to hammer home the 12 toxic , financial , environmental and climate changing dangers of Fracking .. I will therefore continue to question you about Fracking and THE DIRTY DOZEN…
On the positive side , I would like to personally ” THANK YOU ” for continually allowing JACK to expose these dangers , whilst highlighting how a keen PRO-Fracker has zero , zilch, nothing to back up their stand on the matter ……. YOUR lack of concern to acknowledge what qualified people / organizations have to say on the dangers of Fracking is highly revealing as to what sort of person you are ..
A point that won’t be lost on the readers.
Now MARTIN , in all your above reams of diversionary Collywaffle , you’ve forgotten to respond to these serious WARNINGS on the dangers of Fracking
Will YOU again be pretending not to have seen this evidence , or be trying to divert the conversion with unrelated Collywaffle on things like (1) Jeremy Corbyn ,(2) UNITE (3) Pigeons to name a few ?????????
Breast Cancer Action , Fracking dangers
https://www.bcaction.org/the-root-causes-of-breast-cancer/our-fossil-fuel-work/dont-frack-with-our-health/
Fracking, CHILDREN AT RISK OF CANCER … study by the prestigious YALE SCHOOL of Public Health.
https://news.yale.edu/2022/08/17/proximity-fracking-sites-associated-risk-childhood-cancer
Premature DEATH risk for the elderly
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/27/people-living-closer-us-oil-and-gas-wells-higher-risk-dying-prematurely-study
PLEASE REMEMBER , when providing JACK and the readers a response , please provide credible evidence with LINKS to your source
Failure to supply such evidence will render your comments as nothing more than wild off-the-cuff ” OPINIONS “
You can question as much as you like Jack, but as you killed off the Dirty Dozen on 24/10 it will be like you claimed-irrelevant to the UK.
If you really wish to discuss cancer in children, then there is always the use of cobalt, a substance declared as a carcinogen, that children are handling to produce a “brave new world”. However, you have previously stated that children elsewhere are not to be considered, so your concern is fiction. You could also discuss why USA enjoys much higher survival rates from cancer than the UK. Then you would need to use some more links, but you killed them off with your nonsense about INEOS, even ignoring-which I didn’t-having strangled them reference Chesapeake Energy, that you attempted to rescue with the classic that 2020 was a “normal” year. Not a paper trail, but a plastic one-supplied by yourself.
You dig your holes Jack, I will just point out how flawed your digging is. Wouldn’t want anyone to be misinformed, would “we”? That would be “propaganda”, and I note you are the one who has suggested the “merits” of that previously, so I will just point that out. I know the Internet is a useful addition to that Jack, but it is also a means to identify it very quickly. One literally pays one’s money and makes a choice. I am the “sort of person” who is not easily fooled by amateurish nonsense, Jack. Sorry that is inconvenient for you, but such is life where others without much knowledge try to define people who are not easily fooled. The Emperor still ends up naked.
MARTIN ,
ONCE AGAIN after being shown clear , indisputable evidence from world leading organizations and qualified people that have proven without a shadow of doubt that Fracking is a highly toxic , environmentally damaging , climate changing process that is dangerous to human and animal health …..
YOU MARTIN , are once again choosing to ignore these dangers and instead trying to divert the conversion away from these very difficult , uncomfortable questions , by employing your now famous, diversionary Collywaffle tactics
I hope the readers fully take note of the fact you have shown NOTHING , I repeat NOTHING in defense of Fracking and have shown NOTHING to prove this industry is safe .
In response to your above comment , quote , ” you killed off the Dirty Dozen on 24/10 it will be like you claimed-irrelevant to the UK.”
That is absolute NONSENSE.
Now MARTIN as I have had to repeat myself on this page TWICE before , I’m going to try and make this as simple as possible for you to understand.
WHAT I SAID IN THE POST YOU REFER TO WAS.
“” MILLIONS of litres of fresh drinking water laced with highly toxic CANCEROGENIC chemicals pumped underground at pressures of around 10,000 psi ( your car tyre is inflated to around 32 psi ) Where do you think these toxic chemicals could migrate to ??????
Fracking whether it is done in the USA the UK or ” TIMBUKTU ” is done by EXACTLY the same method …. GEEEE MARTIN this is nursery school stuff , are you that nieave or lacking in knowledge on the subject ??????? “”
IS THERE ANYTHING YOU DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND HERE ??????
Or will I have to repeat myself a FOURTH time ??????
ALL 12 dangers , climate, environmental, health and financial dangers are still FULLY applicable when it comes to Fracking
Therefore I will continue to hound you and challenge you to debate Fracking and THE DIRTY DOZEN here on the Drill Or Drop forum pages …
MARTIN ,
You are acting like a poorly programmed , AI BOT .
HOW MAY TIMES will I have to repeat myself regarding the huge white elephant , Chesapeake Energy ?????????? A 100 times , 200 times 300 times ????????
Your really doing yourself NO FAVORS keep making JACK endlessly repeat himself.
What I said was SIMPLE , please speak to JACK if you are having difficulty understanding these words.
In the normal year of 2020 Chesapeake Energy was plodding along, saddled with BILLIONS of DEBT ………..Just like all the other American Fracking companies…..
Lucky for them , the Russia – Ukraine War came along and Russian Oil / Gas was restricted….. This has now given the US shale industry a temporary reprieve
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/29/chesapeake-energy-fracking-pioneer-files-for-bankruptcy-owing-9bn
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/shale-industry-will-be-rocked-by-300-billion-in-losses-and-a-wave-of-bankruptcies-deloitte-says.html
DO YOU UNDERSTAND MARTIN ???????
Oh, I understand that you feel 2020 was a normal year Jack. That is not too much of a surprise. It may surprise those who were posting on DoD in 2020 how it was not a normal year for oil and gas companies, and it may surprise most industries around the world who found 2020 was not a normal year. For Jack to post such nonsense, no, I don’t think that would surprise too many. Perhaps a better option was not to post a link that upon examination was so flawed that the nonsense of 2020 being a normal year did not need to be INVENTED? It doesn’t take much research Jack to find why for Chesapeake it was a particular issue. I have provided the information myself, as some do seem to have an inability to look beyond their noses.
By the way, in respect of your other INVENTION. THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU SAID IN THE POST I REFFERED TO. A fairly important correction, and I am pleased to point out another of your silly games. It is easy to find what I was referring to Jack. It remains the case, Dirty Dozen dead, irrelevant-what is reported to happen in USA is not relevant to what happens in UK-even apart from the fact the activity is precluded in UK so the whole thing is academic.
Hound away Jack. You will end up like the myopic hound who chased the squirrel feeling extremely proud and then rather silly as he crashed headlong into the tree as the squirrel ran up it and all around had a laugh at his expense.
Nice to see Una-Jane will be okay with new N.Sea licenses, to add those successful applicants to a pension pot, or not, as she decides. Just hope she has not added Tesla!
MARTIN ,
Unlike YOU , I back up all I say with evidence , credible evidence from qualified people who are not afraid to put online their REAL NAMES and the organizations they work for .
Unlike yourself MARTIN , Marie , Joan , John , Peter or whoever you really are , who ONLY ever gives an ” OPINION ” backed up with sweet nothing.
Now if you are going to challenge anything I’ve said, then let’s see your evidence . Or are you going to do your usual thing of making wild Off-The-Cuff comments and not backing any of it up, WELL MARTIN ????????
Now MARTIN , I have some more evidence on the serious dangers of Fracking……If you are not going to respond to the other LINKS , then maybe you’d like to respond to these , or will again pretend you’ve not noticed this damning evidence and instead try and divert the conversion ????????
FRACKING MUST BE PHASED OUT TO PROTECT PUBLIC HEALTH
https://texaspsr.org/new-report-fracking-must-be-phased-out-to-protect-public-health/
SERIOUS FRACKING DANGERS
https://psr-wisconsin.org/health-fracking
Compendium of SCIENTIFIC , MEDICAL, and Media Findings Demonstrating RISKS and HARMS of FRACKING
Just for the record , I will continue to challenge you to debate Fracking and THE DIRTY DOZEN , as each time you refuse to talk ……. It will highlight to the readers that there are people out there who are willing to expose them and their families to the PROVEN dangers of Fracking without even considering the serious Health , Environmental or Climate Change consequences.
And, the reality is that fracking, far from being phased out in USA, is now not only supplying much of US domestic requirement, but those good old Texans, and elsewhere are very kindly supplying oil and gas to the rest of the world. Making fortunes according to Jack. The rest of the world are happy to pay for the very expensive gas which LNG produces? I believe the Texans are particularly happy their GDP is greater than that of Russia, whilst Jack is bitter. Meanwhile, the World Bank warns about oil maybe reaching $150/barrel, which will encourage the Texans some more.
Now, bad hound, off to your bed and no dinner as punishment for chewing up the Dirty Dozen on 24/10. You can dream about those squirrels you can never catch and recover from your headache.
MARTIN
Taking note of your above comments on the matter.
It would appear that you have the same mindset as those companies/corporations and people who profit greatly from international conflicts , they never get to meet those personally affected in war zones ……. Knowing the serious dangers of Fracking , you just look at the people living in close proximity to Fracking sites as like collateral damage , casualties of war.
It is clear that you feel that it’s an acceptable risk to put upon communities as long as theirs PROFIT TO BE MADE .
As long as a shareholders and handful of wealthy FAT CATS , who certainly won’t be living with their families anywhere near the Fracking zone can make a pile of cash.
Don’t you care about the increased risks of CANCER in children ???????
The increased risk to pregnant mothers ????????
The risk of early death in the elderly ??????????
Don’t you care about the increased
risk of Breast Cancer in woman ???????
TO NAME BUT A FEW OF THE ” DANGERS.”
[Text amended at poster’s request]
To be very honest Jack, what would “appear” to you, is not my concern. Based upon observation of your previous posts over several years, including when the war is over in Ukraine “we” will be friends with Russia and using their gas and oil, plus 2020 was a “normal” year and on and on and on…………
I have long lost any hope that any of your posts will contain anything other than a very selective and distorted picture of reality, that “appears” to eventually confuse yourself if I bother to keep the discussion going for a short period of time. Starts with Dirty Dozen fantasy and then kills off Dirty dozen fantasy-all by yourself, whilst desperately trying to get others engaged. Jack, there is enough amusement offered by just observing how you so love-it would appear-to shoot yourself in your own feet. So, perhaps avoid war zones!
Going back to the subject of this discussion-pensions- then all I would consider is if oil and gas are removed from pensions, then be very careful with what is put in their place. Over the last month alone $145B has been wiped off the value of Tesla (source: Bloomberg.) For one company Jack. Puts your frequently trotted out $300B into context. Excites yourself it would “appear,” but not myself when taken in context. Plonked out there by Jack, yet also that fortunes are being made. Talk about confusion from incoherence. Please readers avoid those two with your pensions.
Hello MARTIN ,
FIRST OF ALL ,
I would like to ” THANK YOU ” from the bottom of my heart for services rendered … At every opportunity you have tirelessly worked to give the ANTI-Fracking movement a continual platform to fully expose the dangers of Fracking on the Drill Or Drop pages .
You have enthusiastically , continually demonstrated how little Fracking has to offer whilst it exposes local communities and the environment to serious dangers.
YOU personally have worked wonders in bringing to the forefront of people’s minds these dangers that have been quietly brushed under the carpet by the industry….. ( BRAVO MARTIN )
I take note that n your above post you do NOT want to acknowledge the evidence I’ve put forward and instead are trying to divert the conversion away ” AGAIN ” from the very difficult questions, I’ve leveled at you ….. A point that won’t be lost on the readers ( Thank You )
I’m going to cut straight through your diversionary Collywaffle as we have endlessly been through through the things you’ve mentioned above ( VERY VERY RECENTLY ) and on EACH occasion you’ve been on the ROPES ….. I’m surprised how you continually want to keep exposing to the readers how you can dramatically lose a debate on so many fronts ….. Don’t forget MARTIN it’s the readers that matter most and they have all bared witnesses to these debates on sooooo many previous occasions that the results will be permanently etched o their minds ( Thank You )
AGAIN I WILL ASK
Don’t you care about the increased risks of CANCER in children ???????
The increased risk to pregnant mothers ????????
The risk of early death in the elderly ??????????
Don’t you care about the increased
risk of Breast Cancer in woman ???????
I WILL ALSO ADD
Don’t you care about how Fracking greatly fuels Climate Change ???????
Don’t you care how Fracking is Environment Damaging ????????
Don’t you care how living in a Fracking area greatly reduces the value of your home ????????
Don’t you care how Fracking may make your home difficult and costly to Insure ????????
Don’t you care how Fracking leaves a toxic , costly financial burden fir future generations maintaining abandoned/orphaned wells ???????
TO NAME BUT A FEW OF THE ” DANGERS.”
If you dispute any of the above please ,PLEASE say , as I will be delighted to once again , be given the opportunity to fill these pages with EVIDENCE.
Oh dear Jack.
You mean the fracking that is precluded in UK, on a platform that is detailed as about UK fracking, yet you waffle on about reports concerning fracking in USA and then post on 24/10 that what happens regarding energy supply in USA doesn’t happen in UK! All that waffle, just about as useful and relevant as a chocolate teapot.
Jack, you may have issues regarding USA, you may want UK to rely upon Russia for gas and oil. However, fracking in USA will continue and Russian gas and oil will not feature for the UK.
Meanwhile, Ukraine which has plenty of gas storage capacity is kindly making that available to the rest of Europe. Wonder where the gas will come from to be put into it? Russia? No. Middle East looks “secure”? No. Could always “rely” upon global warming to reduce demand. LOL. However, if you want to pursue your US links Jack, you will find plenty referencing contracts being signed by US companies to supply LNG to Europe for years to come.
No, I do not acknowledge your nonsense Jack. After all you have stated clearly yourself that what is reported in USA doesn’t happen in UK. Kind of you to do so and declare the Dirty Dozen deceased. All that wasted work Jack, no wonder productivity is so low when some try and manufacture and then destroy themselves what they tried to produce.
LADIES and GENTLEMEN
MARTIN , has in writing , given you his ” OPINION ” Collywaffle supported with ZERO evidence .
As stated above , is his own personal ” OPINION ” ….. He does NOT in the slightest care what world leading Doctors and Professors of medicine, science and engineering say when they warn about the serious , PROVEN dangers of Fracking.
Rather than adopt the ” PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE ” he/she or whoever MARTIN really is hiding behind their keyboard , is more than HAPPY to expose YOU and YOUR FAMILIES to these proven Fracking dangers…
MARTIN feels that he/she knows better that what these qualified people/organizations have to say on the matter .
PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THIS
HEY MARTIN , not trusting medical doctors , however do you go on when your not feeling well ???????
Doctors can say what they like Jack. In UK they say they have to have a huge pay increase, yet they know very well pay increases are fueling inflation, which is hardest on those least well off, who then can not afford to heat and eat. A cunning way to maintain a flow of customers suffering from not heating and eating?
My late wife was diagnosed with stomach ulcers Jack-by a doctor. It was not. It was oesophageal cancer.
Doctors in USA I don’t pay any attention to whatsoever Jack, as on 24/10 I was informed that what is reported in USA is not relevant to UK. BY YOURSELF. Besides which, as an antivaxer you have destroyed that source of knowledge as having any credibility-BY YOURSELF. LOL. However, I do note doctors in USA have a higher survival rate amongst cancer patients and think that it is interesting what can be achieved when the money that can be made through energy self sufficiency and exporting of energy makes it’s way into the economy. Lot’s of it Jack, as I recall someone stating fortunes are being made. YOU, Jack.
I think you may also find Jack, that a large percentage of people in UK have found that a second medical opinion often contradicts the first! Scientists are the same-hence the “need” for so many of them. Even Jack’s do it, but only one is needed to do so.
Jack, the only reason the PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE has anything to recommend it is that Jack would NOT HAVE EXISTED if it had been followed! You do not need a precautionary principle to avoid sawing off the branch you are sat upon-unless you are Jack.
Ok MARTIN
YOUR diversionary Collywaffle is as plain to see as the nose on your face …..
🤣 What on EARTH has Doctors wanting a pay rise got to do with their qualified, PROVEN studies that clearly show the dangers of Fracking ?????????
Your bizarre approach when trying to promote your much loved Fracking industry , will no doubt be a great source of mild amusement to the readers .
Your reason for ZERO faith in doctors In the USA is unjustified and beyond compression ( laughable and unfounded ) Another one of your wild Off-The-Cuff OPINIONS backed up with nothing
I STRONGLY DISPUTE AND CHALLENGE YOU to show where I said the USA is different to the UK on Fracking …… That is a BARE FACED FABRICATION of the TRUTH .
OK MARTIN , so for whatever bizarre reason you only are concerned with what UK medical and scientific professionals have to say , are you ????????
WELL WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE ” LINK ” BELOW ????????
From the British Medical Journal ( BMJ ) all warning about the dangers of Fracking
https://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g2728/rr
Well MARTIN , what have you got to say ????????
So Jack, you have an issue with being able to read?? Again??
You can easily check what you posted on 24/10-as can everyone else. Not even a good attempt at deflection, a very poor one.
I have no need to remind you or anyone else. You killed off your chocolate teapot. Your own text was responsible. You confuse marketing and propaganda, and with propaganda the product always ends up trashed by it’s own producer. You have done it before many times and you will do it again-like claiming doctors should be followed-after previously posting as an antivaxer. You obviously don’t agree with the medical profession, so why should anyone else be expected to agree with selected pockets of it? Chesapeake Energy that showed an issue that then had to be distorted with 2020 was a “normal” year and then “fortunes are being made.” Posting about cancer in children but not concerned about children handling a known carcinogen-cobalt-with their bare hands.
[Edited by moderator]
As I stated, someone suggested what is reported to happen in USA in terms of energy supply is not relevant to UK. Check 24/10 and see who it was. Yes, Jack, hounds can also be hounded-especially when they are really confused and going round in circles biting their own tails.
Una-Jane-you have a problem with credibility. Not of your making, but still a problem.
MARTIN ,
FOR LEGAL REASONS
I need to ask if you are above the age of 16 , just in case there is an age restriction on this forum .
I ask this because some of your answers , do make me question your age.
I am very grateful to be given ” BY YOU ” , the opportunity to continually hammer home the dangers of Fracking whilst FULLY exposing how people such as yourself have ZERO concern or interest in what REAL qualified people have to say as they warn about the TOXIC , environmental dangers of Fracking in the studies they conduct.
TAKE NOTE ……I promise that I will not let you off the hook with any immature, childlike , diversionary Collywaffle responses to what JACK and the readers feel is an aextremely important issue which effects the health and safety of the general public .
ONCE AGAIN MARTIN , I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW where I said the USA and the UK were different when it came to Fracking , well I’m waiting ????????
FOR THE RECORD , even a person with the brain capacity of an EARTHWORM could figure out that pumping MILLIONS of litres of highly toxic chemicals in to the ground at pressures of 10,000 + PSI is going to cause a whole raft of problems NO MATTER WHERE IN THE WORLD IT IS DONE .
What’s the matter with you man /woman / child or whoever you really are … What don’t you understand about that???????
I’m getting sick of repeating myself , DO YOU UNDERSTAND ??????
Now MARTIN , again I repeat myself, you said , for some bizarre reason
, that you don’t take note of what medical / scientists say about the dangers of Fracking in the USA …… OK then , well here again is medical / scientists are saying in the BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNAL ( BMJ )
Do you accept what they say is correct ????????
https://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g2728/rr
If you don’t , then what evidence do you have to support your comments ????????
WARNING …. If you don’t supply any evidence , then the readers will have to accept that what you say is only your wild Off-The-Cuff OPINION.
Finally , if you also don’t accept and trust what UK doctors are saying , then how do you go on when you need medical assistance ???????
I think you will find the readers, by their absence Jack, have already noted your chocolate teapot offer. observed it disintegrate after attack by YOURSELF and have shown no inclination to be tarred with the same brush.
However, Jack, if you are hearing voices of support to keep it going, it is one explanation but I would suggest others have already come to that conclusion. An antivaxer where the medical profession-even a small slice of them-are to followed blindly?? Incoherent nonsense. I am happy to post that it is too obvious as the author has followed exactly the same flawed formula for several years ending up in the same mire each time. Others would appear to have come to the same conclusion with or without my help.
Are you suggesting Jack, I should try and falsify my identity and rebrand as Martin the Lad??? Nope, Jack, there is enough of that going on.
MARTIN ,
So I gather , after sieving through your above pile of Collywaffle , is that your OPINION , as that’s all it is an OPINION backed up with NOTHING. ….. Is that you think the strong evidence I’ve put forward is all NONSENSE……
Once again I’d like to THANK YOU MARTIN , for showing the readers how PRO-Frackers have NOTHING in which to challenge the serious WARNINGS about the dangers of Fracking from doctors , scientists and engineers . ( BRAVO )
Is this also nonsense MARTIN ?????
PEER REVIEWED STUDIES
linking FRACKING to CANCER
https://www.williamstrial.com/blog/2018/november/peer-reviewed-studies-reveal-fracking-cancer-clu/
FRACKING linked to CANCER and ASTHMA
https://www.alleghenyfront.org/pitt-researchers-find-higher-risks-for-lymphoma-and-asthma-for-those-near-fracking-but-no-association-to-ewing-sarcoma/
CHILDREN living near FRACKING sites have a much greater risk of LEUKEMIA
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/children-born-near-fracking-sites-have-an-increased-risk-for-leukemia-180980641/
Well let me finish by saying this , as far as your online name goes…. When you take note of the fact that you have never , I repeat NEVER put up a LINK on this website for fear of exposing your IP ADDRESS .
Ladies and Gentlemen I ask you this , do you honestly think MARTIN whoever he / she really is , would be putting up their REAL NAME 🤣 ??????
Well Jack, you may have issues putting up your own name. Some of us who always post about reality don’t have that problem. It really is easy to post nonsense if nobody recognizes who it is posting nonsense. Isn’t it Jack? You decided to follow a certain path. It is your choice to do so. It is your choice to design a chocolate teapot and then admit it has no relevance to the UK. It is your choice to ignore the medical advice of most of the world’s medical professionals and then try and argue a few should be held in high regard. It is you who declare you are a concerned UK resident and then plough ahead demonstrating you know nothing about the UK, whilst you post about the value of propaganda.
The only thing you are familiar with “engineering” is reality and based upon several years of observing the mess you make of that, Jack, I would expect better service. However, I would be warned off employing an “engineer” calling himself Jack the Lad. I am not an engineer Jack, but I have employed a number. Sorry, your chocolate teapot CV would not have passed the waste bin selection first stage, but it would have presented some amusement within that process.
(I do recall in real life having two of my engineers seconded to fitting a system into a factory in Russia, and being surprised how long they would be away. Then, I found the Russian “engineer”-shall “we” call him Jack the Vlad-had run out of electrical fuses and decided to “engineer” his own. Took two weeks to make the factory safe before the installation could commence. He probably thought his “links” were the solution, but they were not and downright dangerous. Such is life.)
🤣 Once again I will say this MARTIN , for someone who has NEVER put a LINK up on Drill Or Drop for fear of exposing their IP ADDRESS …….. I’d say there’s more chance of me soaring through the skies , riding on the back of a flying pig than there is of your real name being MARTIN FREDERICK COLLYER 🤣
Maybe this LINK to NASA will convince you of the Fracking dangers
NASA , space agency , climate scientists , show how Fracking is causing a dangerous Methane spike which is greatly fueling climate change
I suppose MARTIN , you think NASA scientists are talking nonsense 🤣
MARTIN ,
Is this ” nonsense ” ??????
New NASA study shows fracking of natural gas and oil is key driver of climate change — News Release from NC WARN
https://www.ncwarn.org/2018/01/new-nasa-study-shows-fracking-key-driver-climate-change/
MARTIN,
Is this NASA study ” nonsense ” ??????
New NASA study shows fracking of natural gas and oil is key driver of climate change
https://www.ncwarn.org/2018/01/new-nasa-study-shows-fracking-key-driver-climate-change/
Well yes, it must be nonsense Jack, as an “engineer” declared on 24/10 that what is reported in USA reference energy supply is not relevant to UK!
Now, Jack, why would I want to disagree with an “engineer”-unless he was so afraid of trying to force a chocolate teapot upon the UK he had to hide his identity? In that case, especially when he adopts a fictional name associated with being less than truthful, I reserve my right to show some awareness. I am just surprised that no one has seen the EU market opportunities and declared themselves as Charl A Tan………yet.
Getting back to the subject of pensions. Hope no one saw BritishVolt as a pension opportunity. That collapsed and now the new owners haven’t paid the UK staff for 4 months. Yet, there are plenty of links that purport to show the great opportunities for investors and pensioners. I also still await any dividend from Tesla. Looks as if my opportunities there will be to try and predict the Dead Cat Bounce.
For an “engineer” to try and describe a 2018 product as new Jack, it just confirms the confusion between propaganda and reality. Good job it is so obvious. Fits the 2020 was a normal year pattern, and there was an electricity distribution network in USA in the 19th century, so the writing was already on the wall to encourage awareness.
How about going back to basics, Jack?
If you just typed out “I am not Jack the Lad” then it would set a platform that there was at least one post that was factually correct. Except, I would suspect it would come under your existing name tag which would even preclude that!
Have to get back to serious stuff now Jack, having sprayed my patio with cleaner which I am informed will contaminate water courses all around and trying to work out why the French supplier of the product invested to produce it, didn’t supply it FOC but charged an absolute fortune. So much to digest-if one has to spend a lot of effort reverting to reality. I could also be very worried about all that radioactivity underground as there is an “engineer” stating it is bound to leak out, even before more is stuffed underground from the new nuclear to cover for when the wind doesn’t blow. Goodness, Jack, these grandchildren don’t stand a chance! Or, maybe they do if they study to become informed engineers?
MARTIN ,
Due to the fact that my words would be [ MODERATED ] I will have to choose my words carefully and therefore I accuse you of being a BARE FACED FABRICATOR .of the truth.
Unless YOU can show differently how I said that Fracking in the USA is different than Fracking in the UK , because it isn’t and I’VE NEVER SAID ANY DIFFERENT then you must stop saying this as it will only continually make the readers laugh at your expense……
Now for the 3rd or 4th time on ths very page I will repeat these simple ENGLISH WORDS in the desperate hope that they will FINALLY sink in
BELOW I REPEAT AGAIN
ONCE AGAIN MARTIN , I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW where I said the USA and the UK were different when it came to Fracking , well I’m waiting ????????
FOR THE RECORD , even a person with the brain capacity of an EARTHWORM could figure out that pumping MILLIONS of litres of highly toxic chemicals in to the ground at pressures of 10,000 + PSI is going to cause a whole raft of problems NO MATTER WHERE IN THE WORLD IT IS DONE .
What’s the matter with you man /woman / child or whoever you really are … What don’t you understand about that???????
I’m getting sick of repeating myself , DO YOU UNDERSTAND ??????
WELL DO YOU ??????????
Whilst I have your attention , what’s your OPINION on this ????????
From the USA prestigious YALE UNIVERSITY School Of Public Health FRACKING DANGERS
https://e360.yale.edu/features/fracking-gas-chemicals-health-pennsylvania
Will you be giving JACK and the readers another laugh by pretending you’ve not noticed this , or be trying to divert the conversion once AGAIN ??????
AND MARTIN ,
As for some bizarre, ” UNKNOWN REASON ” you say that you ” don’t have any interest in what doctors have to say in the USA ”
We are ALL still waiting for your OPINION on this damning letter against Fracking in the BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNAL ( BMJ )
https://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g2728/rr
Well MARTIN , what have you got to say ????????
AND MARTIN for fear of repeating myself two dozen, three dozen , four dozen times , I’ve lost count the number of times I’ve said this …..
I really do appreciate the mild amusement and laughter your giving us during these darkened , troubled times , but it’s at the expense of your OWN credibility MARTIN .
YOU seem to forget , the readers on here can also read BOTH OUR FORUM POSTS , they know the truth 🤣
MARTIN there was an Electricity Distribution Network in the 19th century.
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/history-energy-united-states
https://nmgroup.com/en/resources/news/history-of-uk-electricity-network
I do hope this finally sinks in , do you understand ???????
ELI-GOTH ,
NOT an extremist , ” anti fossil fuelled ”
But next time I make a comment , I will take note of your concerns about people posting on this web page at 1:50am .
Jack, as a retired Engineer I look at all the ‘evidence’ before forming my opinion. I also look carefully for signs of bias, hype, omissions and any other signs that a technical report is not accurate in its conclusions. There are plenty of people out there with a vested interest in paying scientists to bend the truth. To exaggerate dangers or worse, play them down.
The 637 page Compendium Report which you provided a link to, is a case in point, this report, cites the danger of ALL gas infrastructure, including having a gas hob in your house ! The origins of its issuers appears suspect.
My view on Fracking, gleaned over 50 years is that it is a comparatively simple process that occurs very deep underground, way below any useable aquifers. It has been conducted many hundreds of thousands of times, throughout the world, without negative effects. On the contrary the benefits of improved well flow improve our standard of living.
Meanwhile, Graeme, this week at the Court of Appeal, Together against Sizewell C, having lost against the Government in the High Court earlier, try to stop the Sizewell nuclear development! Leading barrister? David Wolfe KC! Sound familiar? Shame UK can not afford many other “industries”, due to high energy costs.
GRAEME
Well as a qualified engineer myself, I agree , Fracking is a ” simple process ”
( 1 ) You take MILLIONS of LITRES of water away from human consumption and mix it with it with a large number of highly toxic chemicals.
( 2 ) You pump the millions of litres of toxic liquid under the ground at pressures of 10,000 + PSI ( please note your car tyre pressure will be at about 32 PSI , so that gives you an idea. )
( 3 ) The large volumes of toxic , radioactive wastewater removed during the process , what do you do with that ????? Maybe you do a grubby backroom deal like what Caudrilla did with United Utilities and quietly dump it in the Manchester Ship Canal..
( 4 ) You consume a large amount of energy , before , during and after the Fracking process.
GRAEME , it won’t take a rocket scientist to figure out when you pimp millions of litres of chemicals under the ground at such HIGH pressures ,where it goes nobody knows…. Unseen fractures or weak points in the shale rock you are Fracking , would have toxic chemicals migrating all over the place.
As far as Fracking being done in a number of places around the world , yes maybe your right and what an environmental, toxic mess that’s left .
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-drilling-abandoned-specialreport-idUSKBN23N1NL
Thanks for the linked document Jack. A sad tale of waste in the USA. I take it that’s where you live ?
However, here in the UK we don’t have any abandoned gas wells. It’s a pity actually as they’ve been discovered to be a great way of accessing cheap geothermal heat for district heating systems for years to come. There’s a 26 degree increase in ground temperature for every kilometre we drill down. So boiling water a few kilometres below us. A great way to extend the useable life of a productive onshore well.
As to the use of fresh water for the drilling process, luckily we have plenty, in fact our rivers have been overflowing recently with our excessive autumn rainfall, so no-one going without fresh water here.
Then, Graeme, when they FRACK for geothermal in Cornwall, guess what????
I don’t have an issue with geothermal but neither do I try and cover up seismic activity from one source of energy and magnify it from another. Then, I am a bit old for excitement to be more important than reality.
Geothermal has been used for some years in south of England, with success and in a built up area. In Germany there has been some very serious problems with it, with subsidence in built up areas. Just more proof of not all countries have to have the issues that are reported in others. Hence an “engineer” actually stating on 24/10 what is reported to happen regarding energy supply in USA is not relevant to the UK. Now, that I can agree with, otherwise if I took the selected German reports geothermal would be doomed for UK, and I would not even have to look at the seismic activity from Cornwall.
MARTIN ,
YOU ARE A BARE FACED FABRICATOR
Who never backs a single thing with evidence.
How many times do I have to say the same thing ????🤣🤣🤣
ONCE AGAIN MARTIN , I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW where I said the USA and the UK were different when it came to Fracking , well I’m waiting ????????
FOR THE RECORD , even a person with the brain capacity of an EARTHWORM could figure out that pumping MILLIONS of litres of highly toxic chemicals in to the ground at pressures of 10,000 + PSI is going to cause a whole raft of problems NO MATTER WHERE IN THE WORLD IT IS DONE .
What’s the matter with you man /woman / child or whoever you really are … What don’t you understand about that???????
MARTIN What about this ???????
PEER REVIEWED STUDIES
linking FRACKING to CANCER
https://www.williamstrial.com/blog/2018/november/peer-reviewed-studies-reveal-fracking-cancer-clu/
FRACKING linked to CANCER and ASTHMA
https://www.alleghenyfront.org/pitt-researchers-find-higher-risks-for-lymphoma-and-asthma-for-those-near-fracking-but-no-association-to-ewing-sarcoma/
CHILDREN living near FRACKING sites have a much greater risk of LEUKEMIA
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/children-born-near-fracking-sites-have-an-increased-risk-for-leukemia-180980641/
[Edited by moderator]
No, there was no distribution network for electricity in USA in 19th century either. They had just started to get going. That is not a network. Engineers should be precise with language.
As far as medical comments, as you have already YOURSELF denied medical science with your antivax stance, I reserve the right to ignore myself the selected bits you have found related to something reported in another country. I do note however that other country has a better survival rate from cancer and consider how they may be able to afford to achieve that. Maybe it is something to do with that $7v$47 for gas? I also note how you YOURSELF again denied medical science and seem to think that children handling a known carcinogen-cobalt-in another country can be okay, especially a country with very limited capacity to deal with cancer.
The self righteous inherit nothing Jack, when they keep contradicting their own message, and then kindly put forward their support for propaganda to explain to those who have yet to twig.
MARTIN ,
How can anyone challenge that great pile of unrelated , diversionary Collywaffle that you’ve churned out in your ABOVE comment ???????
[Edited by moderator]
( 2 ) Supplying ZERO EVIDENCE to back up a single one of your comments .
( 3 ) HIDING AWAY from answering difficult questions from studies that have PROVED the LINK between Frackingi and Cancer , Asthma , Birth Defects in new born babies and early death for the elderly to name but a few .
( 4 ) HIDING AWAY from answering difficult questions from studies that have PROVED the LINK between Fracking and climate change / environmental damage.
( 5 ) MARTIN its deeply disturbing and worrying that any human being would endlessly try and divert the conversation from such important HEALTH, ENVIRONMENTAL, CLIMATE CHANGE topics with all sorts of unrelated nonsense . Why would any normal human being try and push a PROVEN highly toxic, dangerous industry like Fracking on the British public ???????
YOU are endlessly proved wrong , so why keep coming back and saying the same things ?????? WHY do you permanently want to have the readers endlessly laughing at your expense ????????
MARTIN , I’ve just shown you the evidence on this VERY PAGE which proves that there was an Electricity Distribution Network in the 19th century…… Just click on my LINKS , or are you toooooo frightened to even do that ????????
Agsin I ask, why are you trying to push Fracking, a proven TOXIC industry on the British Public ???????
AGAIN I ASK, are you not concerned about the WARNINGS BELOW ??????
BREAST CANCER Action , Fracking dangers
https://www.bcaction.org/the-root-causes-of-breast-cancer/our-fossil-fuel-work/dont-frack-with-our-health/
Fracking, CHILDREN AT RISK OF CANCER … study by the prestigious YALE SCHOOL of Public Health.
https://news.yale.edu/2022/08/17/proximity-fracking-sites-associated-risk-childhood-cancer
Premature DEATH risk for the elderly
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/27/people-living-closer-us-oil-and-gas-wells-higher-risk-dying-prematurely-study
Ermm, I think you will find Jack it was YOURSELF who wanted to discuss fracking in a section that was about pensions. (I seem to remember you had to interrupt my discussion with Una-Jane to divert from what was being discussed to something else YOU wished to discuss-FRACKING.) As shown at 8pm also. So, whilst it seems that someone is allowed to direct INCORRECT insults on this platform, I suspect that little fantasy will also be allowed that somehow I am promoting fracking when I have posted-during this discussion-that it is precluded in UK. If you wish to damage fracking in USA this is hardly the venue, you are addressing it to the wrong person(s) and stand zero chance of having any success-anymore than you did with Chesapeake Energy trying to identify them as a failure and a few days later stating that fortunes were being made, then ignoring that they then were signing contracts to supply gas to Europe.
[Edited by moderator]
SO MARTIN ,
With your failure to ONCE AGAIN even acknowledge the PROVEN DANGERS of Fracking that I have shown above …… We can assume you have ZERO interest if woman living in close proximity to a Fracking site have a greater risk of BREAST CANCER .
It also clearly shows your lack of concern in children being at greater risk of LEUKEMIA and you clearly have no interest in it reducing life expectancy for the elderly in Fracking areas.
Your failure to respond , paints a clear picture that you do not care about the devastating climate change that Fracking causes , or that it greatly devalues homes in Fracking areas .
WHAT SORT OF A PERSON ARE YOU ???????
One thing I can assure you of , is I will continue to hammer home the dangers of Fracking and expose people like you who are willing to subject people to its dangers without any concern..
It gives me great pleasure in FULLY EXPOSING how people like yourself have NOTHING to offer when it comes to trying to challenge these serious Fracking warnings.
Have you anything to say about this ???????
How Fracking affects the environment
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/011915/what-are-effects-fracking-environment.asp
TOXIC WASTE FRACKING
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/04/fracking-us-toxic-waste-water-washington
Fracking study , a RISK to pregnant women
https://today.oregonstate.edu/news/pregnant-women-living-near-fracking-sites-face-higher-risk-hypertension-osu-study-finds
Fracking DANGERS, a risk to pregnant women
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2015/study-fracking-industry-wells-associated-with-premature-birth
Fracking a DANGER to unborn children .
https://waterskraus.com/fracking-contributor-climate-change-birth-defects/
MARTIN , will you be discussing these serious Fracking problems with JACK , or be trying to once again divert the conversion to avoid facing any difficult questions , or maybe you’ll choose to give us all a jolly good laugh again by pretending you’ve not seen the evidence I’ve put forward ??????
MARTIN ,
I’m sad to acknowledge, that talking about the toxic , environmental dangers of Fracking meets with your disapproval. I’d of thought that such a serious topic would of been at the forefront of your mind.
As a UK resident who would stand to have their life blighted by this industry, I’d of hoped as a strong supporter of the industry, you’d of been super keen to try a champion the industry with some evidence to support your argument that Fracking is safe .
SADLY this is NOT the case …… You have constantly shown the Fracking industry has nothing to challenge the serious WARNINGS that come from the endless studies done by reputable organizations and qualified people , that ALL say Fracking poses a serious risk to public health and the environment
The best you are able to do is either pretend you’ve not seen this evidence, or try and divert the conversion on to other topics ……. I’m certain that the readers have also picked up on this .
What about this MARTIN ???????
FRACKING…… BIRTH DEFECTS and CANCER
https://www.ehn.org/fracking-projects-in-nt-risk-exposing-people-to-cancer-and-birth-defects-report-finds-2664897949.html
FRACKING a contributor to Climate Change and Birth Defects
https://waterskraus.com/fracking-contributor-climate-change-birth-defects/
Well MARTIN , what have you got to say ???????
MARTIN , why are you making JACK have to endlessly repeat himself on the SAME PAGE ?????????
Your acting like a poorly programmed , AI BOT .
HOW MAY TIMES will I have to repeat myself regarding the huge white elephant , Chesapeake Energy ?????????? A 100 times , 200 times 300 times ????????
Your really doing yourself NO FAVORS .
What I said was SIMPLE , please speak to JACK if your having difficulty understanding these words.
In the normal year of 2020 Chesapeake Energy was plodding along, saddled with BILLIONS of DEBT ………..Just like all the other American Fracking companies…..
Lucky for them , the Russia – Ukraine War came along and Russian Oil / Gas was heavily restricted….. This has now given the US shale industry a temporary reprieve
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/29/chesapeake-energy-fracking-pioneer-files-for-bankruptcy-owing-9bn
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/shale-industry-will-be-rocked-by-300-billion-in-losses-and-a-wave-of-bankruptcies-deloitte-says.html
DO YOU UNDERSTAND MARTIN ???????
GRAEME
No I don’t live in the USA , but closer to home here is the evidence in SCIENCE DAILY , that contradicts what you say about UK gas wells not leaking
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200730113055.htm