58 replies »

1. “Ecotricity said the company would provide financial support for the legal challenge, as well as support from its campaign team”.

   No need for the crowd funder then?

2. Surprise, surprise-a competitor tries to cut their competition.

   When I was in business the customers used to question why the competitor couldn’t compete with competition, when that was tried. I am not too convinced that a Court would be unaware of vested interest so SOS may be a bit too eager.

   Without competition higher prices are the result. Always has been the case, always will be.

   Meanwhile, with warnings today about higher energy prices due to international events, I wonder where those Windfall Taxes will come from if/when that happens, and whether they will be used to reduce energy prices again?

   • Ecotricity is an electricity supplier, Oil is not used to supply the UK grid on any significant scale, therefore does not compete with Mr. Dale’s business interests.

     • Oh Dennis!, how bloody naive are you? Of course Ecotricity competes with other energy firms! Energy is Bio, Wind, Wave, Fossil Fuels and Renewable, Ecotricity will bash and fight the competition so it commands a larger share of the energy market!, is pure Business to Ecotricity!, whether is for the environment or not!

     • Ecotricity is a supplier of renewable electricity generated from wind and solar power and biogas produced from a biodigester in which grass-cuttings give off the gas as they are composted. The company does not supply any fossil fuel. That is the reason why I buy my gas and electricity from Ecotricity.

3. I can’t imagine that Dale Vince regards the few spoonfuls of oil that Biscathorpe will produce as competition. And why shouldn’t he stand up for renewables, as well as highlight the gross damage that the tories are hell bent on inflicting on us and the planet. Without the past 13 years of tory rule we would have had a lot more renewables by now. As for vested interest, take another long look at the tories record.

   • Well, Paul, with Sizewell C getting the “green” light for development and Drax getting the “green” light for CCS-BOTH THIS WEEK- it would seem that your politics are not showing much reality.

     These two will have far greater impact upon emissions in UK than most other practical actions, but are conveniently ignored by those with their own vested interests, including politics. If climate change is to be taken seriously it might be better not to try and use it as a political football. The other lot, in the case of UK, would have had motorists converted to diesel, nice “green” German ones-that weren’t-using Russian diesel helping to fund expansionist wars!

     Sorry, but I quite like the progress with Sizewell C and Drax, even though I note as a UK resident I will help fund both, which will be expensive.

4. It is also a gas supplier, dennis. What is intended for the gas at Wressle? Oh yes, to produce electricity.

   Then, there are an awful lot of hospitals in the UK where oil does produce electricity and an awful lot of generators elsewhere that do exactly the same. In Lincolnshire, and elsewhere, there are an awful lot of farms who use oil to dry crops in preference to electricity. I could go on about electric mowers v petrol ones and all the rest of that sort of market. Ever heard of EVs as an alternative to petrol and diesel?

   A good try but if you feel a Court will not see a vested interest then they will probably not be able to check the detail, but silly me thought that is what Courts do. I really believe that SOS would have been better off just to have a donation without the linkage. However, they obviously feel differently.

   Whilst I am being proactive, I would also suggest the anti export of the oil is a little odd. I have spent a lot of time in Lincolnshire and have found that much of the output from that county may go for export, and many who live in the county are very proud of the fact. Although, I suppose it could be argued they are just selfish and interested in the strength of the £ that is assisted and thus just about the price of everything they buy. Either way, it still seems rather odd.

   Looking at the very mixed reviews from Ecotricity customers, maybe more money on support of existing customers rather than spending it working against competition may be an option. That is not new, I have come across the same many times in business.

   • What on earth has Wressle to do with this case? Mr. Vince did not have any involvement over the planning applications for that site. This is nothing but the usual Collywaffle, contrived diversions from the issue at hand.

     Ecotricity’s purpose here is to support the to challenge drilling in an area which has special ecological protection under planning legislation. The default is to refuse such development unless there is sufficient weight not to do so in the national interest. The PI’s reasoning in this case is very weak & contrived, but judging by your usual replies on this site I would hardly expect you to recognise such failings.

     As a generating fuel, oil does not even feature in government statistics, so any ‘national interest’ in that regard is without foundation. Diesel back-up generators at hospitals etc; (and even nuclear power stations) are expensive emergency contingencies; if it was economical to use them full time then why do they bother with grid connections? Oh, and they do run on diesel, which is unlikely to be produced from any oil which MAY lie beneath Biscathorpe. Its presence is still speculative, yet Egdon are applying for 15 years planning permission. Will it in also be offering a restoration bond with such ebullience, in case it is no longer around when time comes to restore the site? Or will such costs just be left to fall on the landowner or local council taxpayers?

     Any court is duty bound to decide the case on the facts of the matter, not who supports a particular party, either materially or otherwise. In this case that will be as to whether the PI’s decision was rational and reflects planning guidance and law. If your ‘reasoning’ was followed, then any planning applicant could be defined as a ‘vested interest.’

     As for local support, in addition to local campaigns, the elected representatives of Lincolnshire twice refused this development, and it was also objected to by the local MP. ( A Tory, albeit with a minimised masthead & green colouring to her web page.) But to you, such democracy is ‘odd.’

     Mr. Vince has stated on numerous occasions that his company is not the cheapest, nor the right choice for everyone; customers are always free to find another supplier. He is quite open in his proactive support for the green transition, ecological causes and funding of relevant campaigns. As an Ecotricity bond holder I thought his support for JSO was misguided, as that group is doing nothing strategically to actually achieve its stated aim. However, based on the facts of this case I am fully behind his support of SOS, & happy to continue funding his business.

     • Sorry Dennis, that is nonsense. If I happened to have an EV it would use electricity, if I had a diesel or petrol it would need oil to be processed.
       So, a supporter of JSO now wants to stop an individual competitor. That is his choice, and he is entitled to make it, but claiming there is no vested commercial interest is nonsense. He is a competitor with a vested interest in one particular energy source. Is that really what the planning process should be dealing with? What next? A cricket club trying to prevent a football pitch because they don’t like the competition and people should be excluded from football?

       In my opinion, it is not a great link to SOS whilst they believe it is. I suppose it depends on what publicity results. Probably be good for Ecotricity but I suspect to the wider audience it may look like self interest and I would not expect that to help SOS one little bit. Most commercial businesses, if sensible, will look very carefully at support/sponsorship of their business in respect of public perception. I don’t think this is so different.

       Your fears about restoration seem to be based upon very little previous, Dennis. You talk about costs falling upon others, well I didn’t see the same concern about the £400k costs at Wressle, Dennis. However, they are the sort of thing I would expect to be considered during a planning process, not whether a competitor may end up having to compete a little harder. People who pay for energy may actually feel competition may be what they desire.

   • Ecotricity does not supply any fossil fuel to its customers. The gas which Ecotricity supplies is produced by composting grass-cuttings in a bio-digester: the gas is collected as the grass-cuttings decay. Preventing the climate-change which is being caused by humanity’s use of fossil fuels should be very important to anyone who wishes Planet Earth to be a habitable world for our grandchildren.

     • Think you will find many grandchildren have a different view of that Ruth-as they do about many things-when they find grandparents have spent all their inheritance on expensive energy. “What on earth Grandpa!? You believed the French were going to pay for the UK nuclear horse?” LOL. Then a lot of Emojis that generation will use, whilst they whisper about early dementia.

       Climate change is being caused by a lot of things, not only fossil fuels. Has been the case for thousands of years. How about solar activity, for starters? What did happen to those dinosaurs that grandchildren are fascinated about? Grandchildren hopefully will still show good maths. skills. 1% will make no difference, either with or without the Tories. Follow UK example?? That stopped with the missionaries who were not such a good example in many cases.

       Ecotricity is a supplier of energy. It competes with other energy suppliers, it has a vested interest. I have no problem with vested interest helping out, that is what crowd funding can supply. When it is made obvious I just tend to believe it detracts rather than adds. I have had many years as a marketing professional and that would be my experience. It is the same with sponsorship. What is believed to be a marriage made in heaven can turn out to be pretty rocky as others start to examine the reality. No different if a Sheikh with vested interest offered his support.

       When I posted originally I knew there would be attempts at denial and evasion. It doesn’t change the reality. Courts will deal with the reality.

       By the way, I wouldn’t focus too much upon bio-digesters as being such a Utopia-that market is full of failed projects with others picking up the tabs for resulting costs!

       Happy Blue Monday.

5. I noted when I had a Hybrid my domestic electricity consumption increased, my petrol usage decreased (a little bit, as my journeys were usually more than 25 miles.) I never had a collision, but I note now Hertz are selling around 20k EVs from their fleet and replacing with “gas” in USA. Due to higher costs related to collision and damage. That is contributing to a trend of falling used EV prices.
   No wonder Tesla prices are being continuously discounted.

   I certainly have no intention of going that route with all those not so hidden costs to attack 1% of the issue.

   • MARTIN ,

     1 in 2 people will get CANCER in their lifetimes……. Remember that .

     However YOU try and spin it in favour of the highly toxic combustion engine …. As electric vehicles become more competitive , People WILL choise to buy and use them .

     Didn’t you know MARTIN , human beings DON’T want you increase their risks of Asthma, Cancer and early death ???????

     • Okay Jack, let me ask you for about the fifteenth time what your actual experience of EV’s has been? Response to date? Absolutely nothing.

       When you can show you have walked the walk then it may just be something more than talk, based upon NOTHING.

       As they become more competitive?? Hmmm, tell that to Hertz! The clue is in “selling” Jack. More fantasy based upon NOTHING. At what point Jack? When they are a free gift with every packet of crisps? Sorry, I would still not have one having tried two and been disappointed.

       What an interesting fantasy you try and create, Jack.

       Are you really not aware that most of Lincolnshire’s countryside is shaped by the internal combustion engine and most of the food produced in that county, by the same means?

       1 in 2 people will get cancer. Millions will die without vaccination. Doesn’t stop you posting about your anti vax stance, does it Jack or ignoring children’s health in DRC? Goodness, Evs trundling around carrying THEIR cargo of a declared carcinogen. As for electric scooters, then the NHS absolutely love them! You have no more real interest in the health of people than Vlad the Impaler.
       Perhaps if I thought I might be one of the two Jack I should move to a country that can afford to achieve a better cancer survival rate-like the USA. Wonder how they could possibly afford to achieve that, Jack? Shame “we” will also have to turn down those free nuclear power stations from the kindly French.

       Not sure who you think your audience is Jack but I suspect not too many in Lincolnshire receptive to such nonsense. If you want a TRUE story that appears like a FANTASY then I heard a builder saying he was going to test an electric digger the next day. I asked him a week later how it had worked out. “Haven’t used it yet, awaiting the delivery of the generator” was the response. Such is progress???

       For those in Lincolnshire, cold and snow on the way. Keep warm-if you can afford to.

       • Oh dear MARTIN ,

         Making it up as you go along now , I see you’ve a new Collywaffle tactic 🤣

         You haven’t, quote , ” Okay Jack, let me ask you for about the fifteenth time what your actual experience of EV’s ” that’s a complete fabrication of the truth ……. I sincerely hope the readers are getting as much laughter out of this as I am 🤣.

         REMEMBER MARTIN , the readers know the truth and that’s ALL that matters .

       • MARTIN ,

         Trying to MINIMIZE the devastating effects of 1 in 2 people getting CANCER in their lifetime with a heartless comment that , WELL ,” millions will die without out a vaccination ” speaks volumes how you DON’T CARE about the health and safety of British people , IF it effects your fanatical druve to push for more fossil fuel burning , regardless of the proven devastating effects .

         Again I accuse you of PURE fantasy Collywaffle , regarding my stance on vaccinations and I publicly challenge you to prove otherwise..

         If children are mining rare earth minerals for the EV industry in third world countries , then I suggest you lobby your local MP to bring this up in Parliament ….. This , if proven , is something that needs international pressure..

         Trying to justify Highly Toxic Fracking and the burning of more fossil fuels in the UK , which in turn will poison people , pollute the environment and drive climate change , clearly shows you either don’t live in the UK , or don’t care about British people ….

         It’s fantastic that the government has listened to the people regarding FRACKING .

   • PS MARTIN ,

     TESLA would have to drop from the Moon to the Earth to drop as low as AJ LUCAS ( Caudrilla ) whose individual share price now , is lower in value than individual sheets of Toilet Paper .

     OH and don’t get me on to others like Star Energy ( IGAS ) .

6. Hand mined cobalt and lithium mined from the Republic of Congo for your electric rhetoric by an 8 year old child Jack causes Cancer! Electric Greenwash causes a lot more harm than good Jack!! [Edited by moderator]

   https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/cobalt-mining-congo-batteries-electric-vehicles

   • ELI – GOTH

     Democratic Republic of Congo rare earth mineral mining

     What are YOU doing about it then ???????

     Pushing for HIGHLY toxic UK Fracking on the British people, surely isn’t the answer , is it ????

     • You didn’t answer my quote Jack, the electric renewables industry we are supposedly addicted to! Causing cancer! What are you doing about RoC cancer? Jack!! Exactly nothing too!! #foghornforthenaive

       • ELI-GOTH

         You bring up about CANCER , then let’s see your evidence to back up your comments ????? ….. Whilst your there , show the readers how many people in the UK are predicted to die of Cancer driving an electric vehicle .

         Also whilst I have your attention……. As you and MARTIN relentless are pushing the toxic poisoning of UK citizens by the continued use of fossil fuels , maybe, just MAYBE you’d like to say a few words to the unfortunate UK citizens who are niow continually getting their homes flooded as a result ofextreme climate change ….Things now are VERY BAD and this is only a very small taster of things to come .

         • Homes flooded? OMG Jack, “we” need Noah. When was that?

           Perhaps Jack, UK needs to learn to build houses where they won’t be flooded? Not around the Trent for starters, which has flooded regularly for a VERY long time, which is why there is some very fertile farming land in that area. Shame a lot of it may be under solar panels before long, although it doesn’t look as if that “little” scheme is too popular. Much of Lincolnshire used to be permanently flooded, but is no longer. So, must be drying up?? LOL.

           A bit of a problem in an over populated country, but the desire to deal with that issue is not there in enough force. Perhaps if that was managed houses could not only be built in appropriate places but could have sizeable gardens that left land to absorb water and release it slowly, rather than tiny gardens that once the shed and the patio are added just produce immediate run off.

           Snow is on the way, Jack. It must be climate change-although it just might be January.

           • MARTIN

             If in your first , above paragraph , if you need to ask when were UK homes flooded , you clearly DON’T live in the UK …That would also account for your lack of concern for the health and safety of the British public , whilst you endlessly try to push a proven highly toxic , environmentally damaging industry like Fracking on UK citizens .

             Also , trying to simplify why homes are flooding , by indicating the problems because they are being built on flood planes , won’t fool people with even earthworm intelegance …… As bad as things are , we’re now only experiencing MILD climate change problems , what’s coming down the line if we don’t make some drastic changes will make these current events seem like a walk in the park .

             I do though agree with your comments on over population and the flagging over off gardens with concrete

             • If you need some help to understand English Jack you could live in the UK. Either way, your reading needs some work.

               • Likewise with your punctuation MARTIN .

                 Sadly , your spellchecker can’t help you with that one old chap/ old lady.

               • “Off” is what people tell you to do, Jack.

                 “If you want to join the smart a**** club just remember you can end up half way there”. A wise quote from my late father with his one bit of elderly advice when I was sent off to make my way in the world.

                 But I note those earthworms rise again within your posts, although not quite so sure what level of intelligence intelegance represents. (My spellchecker often gives me two choices-sorry, yours was not there.)

                 Perhaps those pigeons that were eating all those earthworms within one of your previous posts have made the drainage worse, Jack? Goodness, all those farmers believing they were herbivores and stealing their crops should have been “re-educated”. I would tell them so, but I might encounter the “off” again. Before you bother with more nonsense Jack, I came across my old avian physiology exam. results recently whilst clearing out ancient stuff. My memory is quite good, but I had forgotten I was that good.

                 It is a tangled web, Jack, but few are deceived. Only those relying on intelegance.

       • ELI-GOTH ,

         As long as the PROVEN , highly toxic , climate changing , environmentally damaging, dangerous to human and animal health Fracking dont rear it’s ugly head on UK shores again ..

         It’s also worth noting that Fracking devalues homes in effected areas and leaves a toxic financial burden for future generations.

         Is there anything you dispute in what I’ve said , please say .

       • [Edited by moderator]

         Jack, Hertz are SELLING 20k EVs in USA and moving back to “gas” as they found the EVs too EXPENSIVE to run. “When they get cheaper” had ALREADY happened with several recent price reductions desperately trying to change such decisions. In the last few days, another Tesla price slash in China. Perhaps you mean when they get cheaper second hand as owners sell them? Even then, the cost of running and maintaining them continues. For those “sold” on the idea maybe they are still happy. I am not sold on the idea having tried the EXPERIENCE and it didn’t switch me on. So, I will take Hobson’s choice, enjoy my diesel until someone makes me a daft scrappage offer-by which time, in my case, I will have decided I have no need to own a vehicle.

         It is always the arithmetic that triumphs, and when it does Jack’s reaction, whilst extreme, is just the same as other antis. Denial, without any coherence. Not me being for or against anything, but I like anyone else should know that nuclear power stations cost a lot of money, for example, and they can either be paid for by a Government picking up the costs and supplying discounted energy or by the energy user paying a high price for the electricity. Both are actually the same, it is just a different way of trying to square the circle. There is NO nuclear power station fairy out there. That is Alice in Wonderland stuff-which is fiction. So is cheap clean energy when nuclear is added to the equation-see Hinkley Point. The teenagers cheap car scam where the insurance costs, when added, shows the true cost.

         (I note Kerry is leaving post! Must have been difficult being the advocate for one thing whilst the opposite is underway in your backyard. Lot more of that to come.)

         • MARTINS , In response to the above, what’s that disjointed, incoherent , great big steaming pile of Collywaffle about ?????

           You may get satisfaction, hoping that people will be turning back to polluting fossil fuel burning vehicles , but a lot of people WON’T…

           Remember what CANCER charities are endlessly now saying on the TV ….. 1 in 2 people will get cancer in their lifetimes ….. Think about that whilst you endlessly try to push highly toxic Fracking and the burning of fossil fuels whilst continually
           trying to rubbish the green industry.

           1 in 2 people WILL get cancer

           Electric Cars cost pennies per mile to run , far cheaper than a fossil fuel burning vehicles

           • So, you didn’t understand, Jack. That is your choice. You could actually do some research and/or get some experience. Your standard signal that you don’t understand is the standard employed by the activist, but only works if no one recognizes the signal. Unfortunately for Jack, that day is long gone. Better to keep up, Jack.

             Meanwhile, even though you didn’t understand- in the real world Hertz have just decided to return to “gas”, getting rid of 20k EVs as they found EVs TOO EXPENSIVE TO RUN. Now, what is so difficult to understand? Ahh, facts and truth.

             Now call me what you like Jack, but I will take notice of Hertz with their detailed accounting enabling them to come to such a decision rather than an “individual” who takes the name of a fictional con artist who can not even declare that he has any experience. In my case, I tried (twice) I was disappointed I got rid of two. In the case of Hertz, they tried, they were disappointed they got rid of 20k. (No need to feel sorry for me Jack, I tried both on short term leases-7 months-to be able to decide. Ironically, paid the lease fees with money made from trading some stock-not in Tesla, but in oil stocks!)

             Jack? Hasn’t tried, has no experience but thinks his views are relevant. Then whinges no one takes any notice. Well, shiver me timbers-and they are shivering this am-just perhaps there is a connection?

             Please also do not distort the truth in my direction. The “green industry”? Yes, there is one-and it should compete openly, like adding the generation costs of nuclear (reliable) to the generation costs of solar and wind (unreliable). The cart does require a horse-a very expensive one. As outlined by a previous UK Chief Scientific Officer. Otherwise the cart can only roll down hill and no one would be conned by that, would they? Oh dear-see Nikola Trucks! More con artists. Caught and prosecuted, Jack.
             I have AGAIN recently referred to heat pumps with KatT, and I have one, it is on now and I did my research, tried one, found it did what I wanted and now have another one. No rubbishing. Will I spend over £20K to go the whole hog for my property? NO. That is a rubbish proposition. The next owner can decide that for themselves. My neighbour has one, and a nest box-he is a Green. I have a supplementary one, more trees and many nest boxes-I am not a Green. He believes he can campaign locally and the Green economic “policy” should be ignored. (That attempted explanation on UK TV was the best laugh I have had for many years, so unforgettable would be my polite description.) Okay, then campaign as an Independent! As always, why does anything need to add up? Until it does Jack, I will not be conned by any industry covered in greenwash.

             With you as the Emperor standard “barer”, Jack, without any to say you have any clothes it is not an attractive proposition! I can but hope you are enjoying the experience. Myself, I am getting my thermals, scarfs, gloves and heated parka ready.

             • MARTIN ,

               It saddens me to think old chap/ old lady how much ” skin in the game ” you must have , trying to push a highly toxic , highly dangerous industry like Fracking on to an unsuspecting British public….. You must really be HEAVILY down on your investments

               Your continual unsupported bash at the Green Industry does make me also wonder if you are a ” paid lackey ” for some two bit PR company . That would account as to why you NEVER put a LINK up to support any of your comments …. You’d have a fear of exposing the companies IP ADDRESS..

               Either way , I genuinely would like to thank you for all of the support you’ve given people like myself ……. Without your direct input we’d never be able to expose these proven dangers on a daily basis.

               Keep up the good work MARTIN .

               • MARTIN

                 Just to make it clear for YOU .

                 My above comment also applicable to your ongoing futile efforts to rubbish the Green Industry in general.

               • [Edited by moderation]

                 Have you ever bothered to consider why I respond to your nonsense? No, it is not to curtail your posts, quite the opposite. I know what the probability is of your next post containing nonsense. Not a pretty picture, but you do like to oblige, ultimately to the point you contradict yourself.

                 However, nice of you to admit there is a Green industry. So, like any industry, when it is rubbish it should be rubbished. Perhaps if you feel it is so great have a chat to the share holders who were told in August ’21 they had bought into it, to be told in the last few days they have been sold out of it, basically because the investors said no, it is not working we will not allow you to invest more! Sound familiar? You could also speak to those who invested in the trucks that could roll down hill. Perhaps Jill could have joined you to find a use.
                 Afraid I am not a big supporter either of a business that can produce the world’s richest man, overpay directors by $700m but pay no dividend to share holders and not recognize Unions to assist employees negotiating their own remuneration. A certain pension fund feels the same and has removed them, so others also feel that rubbish is rubbish. Those that feel differently that is fine by me, if they want to pay the extra insurance costs and extra repair costs and they don’t calculate what Hertz calculated. Mind you, I am not too chuffed in paying extra insurance costs to cover the possibility/probability of one such heavyweight crashing into my light weight car and causing excessive damage.

                 But, you must be pleased Jack that Sizewell C has now been fully cleared to go ahead, and should be “£20B and 9 years”. However, unfortunately the track record of meeting budget and time are pretty remote for nuclear power stations, so time will tell.

         • OH DEAR MARTIN ,

           Wrong again

           Electric Vehicles are 75% cheaper to run than gasoline vehicles

           https://europe.autonews.com/guest-columnist/why-evs-are-cheaper-run-ice-cars-uk#:market.

           ‘Owning an electric car is now cheaper than a petrol car’

           • Rubbish, Jack.

             Hertz have done the arithmetic, they are not cheap. They have got rid.

             If they are that cheap Jack, why have you not even tried one? Maybe you are concerned for making that jump and then having the lost Fuel Duty plonked on top of the running costs? Yes, it will come-if they multiply.

             If you want one Jack, get one. Don’t expect others to Group Think to do the same, certainly not myself. I have tried two, they were rubbish and very expensive to run. Sorry, your propaganda is not matched by my experience. I will go with my experience. I have no dogma that I am saving anything by having one, I am interested in what I might be losing in having one. If it is the dogma you want, fill your boots-but, you haven’t which is not convincing.

             • MARTIN ,

               I’m supplying EVIDENCE to back up my comments…

               YOU on the other hand , are only supplying one of your famous , wild Off-The-Cuff OPINIONS backed up with zero evidence.

               ENOUGH SAID

               Let the readers decide.

               • OH and MARTIN

                 Whilst you talk about HERTZ car rentals , take a nosey and the full range of Electric Vehicles that you can NOW , right this minute , rent online . There so many to choose from.

                 Maybe you should rent one, get yourself better acquainted with Electric Vehicles . Who knows, we may even convert you .

                 https://www.hertz.co.uk/p/electric-vehicles

                 You can also rent TESLA vehicle’s , OOOOPS 🤫 better not mention that HIGHLY successful Electric Vehicle company ….. One if your serious pet hates 🤣

               • Except, Jack, the evidence is so fragile it has not convinced………..Jack!

                 Purchase price, running costs, insurance, cost of repairs, off road time whilst being repaired-a rubbish financial package. All before anyone starts to look at the adjustments they have to make to their lives to “enjoy” one. Then, around the corner the next lot of costs-such as a share of £20-£30B Fuel Duty. OK for the zealots, sorry I am not convinced.

                 Interesting you mention Tesla. Who was it who stated his product was unaffordable to the average motorists?

                 I noted advice for those unable to heat their homes in UK today that the library was a good place to go, Jack!

               • WRONG MARTIN ,

                 I see you didn’t pick up on my above LINK regarding Electric Vehicle ( EV ) costs , so here it is AGAIN .

                 Despite high upfront costs, EVs are actually significantly cheaper to operate than cars that run on fossil fuels.

                 https://europe.autonews.com/guest-columnist/why-evs-are-cheaper-run-ice-cars-uk#:market

               • No experience for you to go by then, Jack?

                 I forgot to mention, if you wanted to use the library to keep warm you might need some help to identify the FICTION and NON FICTION sections.

                 Meanwhile, if you are so keen, get in contact with Hertz. Apparently some of their Teslas are available for upwards of $20K! If you are unfortunate enough to be looking to sell your EV in USA, sorry the second hand market is now rubbish. Meanwhile both Ford and GM are scaling back their production plans due to the dip in EV sales and Morgan Stanley signaling that EV expectations need to be “reset downwards”. Then, if Trump is returned-which looks likely- who knows what will happen with that market-or any market.

                 Jack, please let me know your lottery numbers for Friday and I will give them a wide berth.

                 Never mind Jack, there could be worse jobs to do this weather. I came across a new “market” the other day where apparently naked domestic cleaners are available! Is it me, or is the world a very strange place? I blame it on Global Warming-without which that employment would rapidly be frozen out!

               • MARTIN,

                 Taking note of your above comment , I suppose it’s business as usual …

                 YOU only supplying wild off-the-cuff OPINIONS , backed up with ZERO evidence.🤣

                 JACK as usual, supplying credible evidence to back up ALL his comments.

                 Time to let the readers decide

               • They did. A long time ago, Jack. They-most of them-can very easily plonk Hertz/EVs into their search engines and acquire some information.

                 If they are eco zealots they can still decide that is one way to spend their money, but I am not and my decision is based upon other considerations. Alternatively, £150/day and they can employ a naked domestic cleaner. Unless you are very rich, life is about choices.

                 You meanwhile have no experience to even start the process of considering an EV. You are just fodder for the marketing chaps/lasses. I was one of them Jack, you would have been my ideal target. One of the few that required very little to excite and then easily convinced. Always remembering that the rest of the market are much more likely to require a lot more convincing, and that to do so still needs to be on the right side of the ASA. That last sentence is what many in the green industry forget. You do a good job bringing that into life. When reality comes into the picture, Jack, sorry but the Group who Think are not usually that ideal target but the rest of the market.

               • MARTIN ,

                 There you go again old chap / old lady, making it up as you go along .” Pure Collywaffle.”

                 Your in NO position to to make a statement on my experience with Electric Vehicles , as you don’t know..

                 I’m sorry to say if your marketing skills are anything like your wild Off-The-Cuff posts on here …. I think you’d have difficulty selling BLOOD to DRACULA.

                 The readers can clearly see that your above comments are only your own OPINIONS , as you never supply any evidence

                 MYSELF , well they can clearly see with there own EYES , I back up my comments with evidence.

                 The indisputable PROOF is all there.

                 Now MARTIN , can we PLEASE get back to the matter in hand , our urgent need to move to cleaner forms of energy to stave off extreme , uncontrolled weather patterns and a collapse in eco systems around the world ??????

                 We can also talk about the scrapping of the bottom of the fossil fuel barrel , the highly toxic energy intensive process otherwise known as Fracking and why YOU want to expose the British Public to these proven dangers .

               • Oh dear Jack. You want to set the agenda?

                 Of course you do, but your agenda is not mine.

                 You haven’t Giggled Hertz and EVs then? Are you prevented from using a search engine to research facts?

                 Just denial and nonsense.

                 Jack, who has been unable to show any actual experience of using an EV, although asked many times, now knows better than Hertz, GM, Ford and Morgan Stanley.

                 No wonder you want to set the agenda, Jack. Mine is reality, yours is propaganda.

                 (There is no fracking intended at this site. Your agenda seems to be a long way from this site, and reality.)

               • MARTIN ,

                 I’m just , with your kind help , hammering home to the readers how you give them nothing , but your own OPINION.. It’s very important they remember this fact with every comment you make.

                 MARTIN , I never said Fracking was to be done at this site , did I ??????

                 Here’s something I’d like to HAMMER HOME to the readers especially with your great love of all things fossil fuel …. We’re already aware that the oceans , land and even our own blood is drowning in fossil fuel derived plastic junk , but now look at the results of a new study …….

                 CANCER RISKS … DON’T DRINK WATER FROM PLASTIC BOTTLES , in fact it raises the question of ALL food wrapped in plastic junk …

                 I notice the manufacturers of this plastic junk have had nothing to say on the matter , Just like asbestos and tobacco manufacturers , I wonder if they already knew about the risks ??????

                 https://news.sky.com/story/bottled-water-contains-quarter-of-a-million-invisible-pieces-of-nanoplastics-on-average-scientists-find-13044663

               • Why drink bottled water, Jack??? Why cross the road??? Why move out of your yurt to risk being trampled by a herd of bison???

                 Why is there all that packaging? Well, Jack, if you ask the retailers they will tell you it is largely to stop their product being contaminated by idiots who then want to extort money from the retailers to identify which product has been contaminated. Life would be much improved without idiots.

                 Meanwhile, don’t get your courgettes imported from Spain-all that transport emission to transport water-buy from your local farm shop, from a local producer. Bit like Biscathorpe, really.

                 [Edited by moderator]

                 Careful Jack, you may become ill from your plastic keyboard.

               • MARTIN , [edited by moderator]

                 I suggest you take a look again at what’s being said .

                 https://news.sky.com/story/bottled-water-contains-quarter-of-a-million-invisible-pieces-of-nanoplastics-on-average-scientists-find-13044663

                 With the RAMPANT rise in CANCER cases and Cancer Organizations warning that 1 in 2 people will get Cancer their lifetimes..

                 For you to try and “minimize” the shocking warnings about the 100s of thousands of highly CANCEROGENIC plastic particles floating around in bottled liquids , likening the risk to being trampled by a herd of wild Bison , [edited by moderator]

                 In your world , fossil fuels cone first.

                 That’s the type of attitude that kept Asbestos in use , decades after it was known about its devastating effects on people .

                 I hope the readers TAKE NOTE about your lack of consideration about the health and safety of them and their families.

               • MARTIN please 🤣

                 What’s this Collywaffle about , surely you can’t be serious ?????

                 ” Why is there all that packaging? Well, Jack, if you ask the retailers they will tell you it is largely to stop their product being contaminated by idiots who then want to extort money from the retailers ”

                 A thin layer of CANCEROGENIC plastic packaging on food products , won’t stop products being contaminated by lunatics.

               • [Edited by moderator] Rather than speculate, I am the sort of person who can empathize with the 2600 people about to lose their jobs at Port Talbot, sacrificed on the Net Zero alter. Those “green” jobs? Less of them remaining in UK but lots exported over the horizon.

                 If you don’t want to purchase plastic, you can reduce what you purchase. No one needs to purchase bottled water in UK, there are plentiful supplies that comes out of taps. Goodness Jack, I must be exceptional, in that I have hardly ever bought bottled water whilst in UK. Neither did my wife Jack, and she had cancer and her oncologists, who were much more educated on the subject than yourself admitted they were a long way away from knowing why their patients contracted cancer.
                 There is a lot of IRON in all people Jack, and some plastic even added to some to keep them alive and functioning.

                 However, as you have demonstrated YOU are unable to get by without plastic, and no one even takes any notice of what you use it for…….good luck.

               • MARTIN ,

                 [Edited by moderator]

                 I’d quit whilst your not to far behind old chap / old lady … If you are not familiar with the English language , or your having difficulties understanding some of the words , just say, JACK will make things as simple as possible for you.

                 I say that because it’s clear you are not understanding what I’ve said , or you are having difficulties joining up the simple dots , that is ALL liquids and food wrapped in plastic will be a CANCER threat .

                 Take a look what ” breastcancer.org ” has to say.

                 https://www.breastcancer.org/risk/risk-factors/exposure-to-chemicals-in-plastic

               • [Edited by moderator]

                 Cobalt is a known and declared carcinogen. Yet, you appear untroubled about bringing that into close proximity of humans.

                 Sunshine is a known cancer threat, Jack. (Ironically, the way to help prevent that is by dabbing on sunscreen-out of a plastic bottle!)

                 With UK last year IMPORTING around 12% of our electricity, with £1.5B worth coming from France, maybe better to have the glass made in France in the first place? (What is kerching in French?)

                 Meanwhile, Jack, for the rest of us who are concerned about our health and that of others, I notice cancer wards are making extensive use of plastic and vaccination centres the same. People can opt out of either Jack, but when they start pontificating about human health they “strangely” have no credibility left. Especially with life expectancy around the world “coincidently” rocketing since oil and gas were widely utilized by humans. Perhaps the readers would like to know how that would be maintained Jack, rather than your clumsy attempted distraction from that? Introducing lots of cobalt is hardly a good start.

                 Sorry Jack the Lad. Anyone who takes the name of a fictional con artist as their preferred reference, ought to be a bit more careful about making it too obvious.

                 Must finish the next bit of kitchen painting today Jack. Wonder how the paint was produced? Oh dear, is it more of a risk than venturing outside in the storm to be able to harvest the woad? Silly me, there were no storms in the past-were there, Noah?

               • MARTIN ,

                 I must really be touching a nerve as your diversionary Collywaffle is going into overdrive…

                 Yes MARTIN , fossil fuel derived plasticis are highly CANCEROGENIC and should be kept AWAY from ALL liquids and foods .

                 Again I say , take a look what ” breastcancer.org ” has to say… They give some great advice .

                 https://www.breastcancer.org/risk/risk-factors/exposure-to-chemicals-in-plastic

                 You may try and divert the conversion all you like with your baseless , wild off-the-cuff OPINIONS backed up with your usual zero evidence

                 BUT let me assure you , it’s not going to work old chap/ old lady ….. I will continue to hammer home, at every opportunity the facts with indisputable evidence ( LINKS) to back up my comments .

                 I would though like to THANK YOU MARTIN , for giving JACK so many wonderful opportunities to do this .

               • Remember MARTIN ,

                 What we are frequently told by Cancer Organizations , 1 in 2 people will get Cancer in their lifetimes.

                 Join up the simple dots and try and figure out why this explosion in Cancer is happening.

                 Could it be our OVERUSE of fossil fuel derived plastic on foods and liquids ??????

                 Many qualified organizations say it is

               • Could it be??

                 Hmm, could there be all sorts of things that “we” are told? Yes, and if told by Jack “we” will be told something different very shortly afterwards.

                 Meanwhile, I am happy to have my milk in a plastic bottle, as otherwise I might end up with broken bones whilst I enjoy my long life span which “we” all expect since the widespread use of oil and gas. Those unfortunate enough to be without their power today up north in UK will soon have it restored thanks to fossil fuel to keep them on track towards the long life they expect.

                 This climate change seems to be a bit hit and miss doesn’t it? Told in 1987 no hurricane, then within 24 hours 15 dead after 115mph winds. Then, back in 1588, in the summer, those poor Spanish souls that perished in SUMMER storms up north. Wasn’t much better in 1066 with prolonged northerly winds bringing the Vikings but keeping the Normans in ports. Yet, I see “we” are being told today the storm last night was somehow extraordinary. Well, as UK has already spent a great deal on moving to Net Zero, it doesn’t seem value for money, does it, that “we” are still being told “we” are experiencing extraordinary storms? Maybe just extraordinarily poor story tellers and the storms are normal?

               • MARTIN ,

                 BREAST CANCER UK

                 WARN , about the dangers of food and fluids coming in contact with fossil fuel derived plastic packaging.

                 https://www.breastcanceruk.org.uk/why-its-time-to-ditch-the-plastic/

                 Are you not concerned MARTIN ?????

               • Nope, Jack.

                 The oncologists I have spoken to all stated they were unable to identify why some people suffered from cancer and others didn’t. They all used plastic within the treatment of their patients. As you have previously stated Jack that “we” should believe the scientists, don’t blame me for doing so. You also believe some scientists are to be believed and others not. Your posts are full of such selectivity.

                 If you want a good, scientific appraisal of the range reduction of EVs when it is cold, see What Car test. Up to 33% reduction! What an outcry there would be if suddenly it became apparent that the fuel efficiency of a petrol or diesel car dropped by up to a third if it became cold.
                 Miss-selling, as bad as an electric truck(Nikola) that can only roll downhill. All able to provide “links” to “verify”, Jack-except it is still twaddle.

     • Worth noting that at least 1 million people in Africa, the majority women, die each year from inhaling wood smoke. Solar or wind probably a more expensive answer than bottled gas. Sometimes fossil fuels ARE the answer.

       By the way it’ll be interesting to see this week how the Grid copes with low temperatures. Two nuclear stations are off line reducing supply by about 4%. We still rely on coal to top up supply in cold snaps. I suspect we’ll muddle through with some requests to lower usage but each year with underinvestment in reliable sources the supply situation gets tighter. I think the government may be anticipating this by the recent call to stock up on candles etc.