Opposition

“Living in fear” – residents respond to 1.6ML fracking tremor

 

pnr 190820 Ros Wills

Cuadrilla’s Preston New Road site near Blackpool, 20 August 2019. Photo: Ros Wills

Cuadrilla has been accused of trying to downplay last night’s 1.6ML earth tremor caused by its fracking operation near Blackpool.

The tremor, at 8.46pm, was the largest so far recorded at the Preston New Road site since fracking began there in October 2018.

The British Geological Survey (BGS) gave it a 3 on the EMS Intensities scale, where 1 is the lowest and 12 the most intense. The BGS said the tremor was felt and heard by people living in Westby, Weeton, Wrea Green, Blackpool and Lytham St Annes. Cuadrilla compared it to a large bag of shopping falling on the floor.

Another tremor, measuring 0.9ML, was recorded at 10.42pm last night. DrillOrDrop 2019 tremor tracker

Last night, campaigners called on Cuadrilla to publish the results of its well integrity checks at Preston New Road.

“Fear of damage”

One resident said today:

“We heard and felt the tremor. It was a loud rumble and shudder. We realised immediately what it was.

“We are now living in fear for the next one to happen wondering what damage it will cause to our home and what damage is being done below the ground.

“Any below the ground damage may not manifest itself for a long time. Who will resolve any issues that may appear in the future? Why would anyone want to cause earthquakes on purpose?”

Last night’s tremors happened after fracking operations had ended for the day and were described as trailing events. Because they measured more than 0.5ML, Cuadrilla must pause fracking for 18 hours.

This was the first required pause in the operation to frack the second well at Preston New Road, which began on 15 August 2019.

Local engineer, Mike Hill, said of the tremor:

“The 1.6ML event was strong enough to damage the well.

“At the local area where the quake occurs (2 miles down not the surface where it is measured), the energy released is focused much more strongly on the well bore and this can severely damage it. So to the well it is more like being hit by an articulated truck than a bag of shopping.”

“Tremor regulations must not be relaxed”

The campaign group, Frack Free Lancashire, said:

“Having abandoned their attempts to frack their first well after only being able to fully fracture just two of the planned 42 stages, Cuadrilla are now trying to repeat the process.

“There was, therefore, a certain grim inevitability to last night’s events, but what should really give local residents pause for thought, is the fact that these were trailing events and there is nothing that can be done to mitigate them in real-time.

“We deplore Cuadrilla’s attempts to downplay and trivialise these quakes by making facile comparisons with milkshakes and bags of shopping being dropped. This is a serious issue and we know that seismic activity at similar levels deformed the well bore at Preese Hall, which Cuadrilla failed to report to the relevant authorities for six months.

“This is, in fact, a perfect illustration of why the limits on the seismic traffic light system must not be relaxed. The safety of residents must be prioritised before a private corporation’s greedy drive for profits at any cost.”

Gina Dowding, Green Party MEP for north west England, said:

“It is simply astounding that Cuadrilla feel they are able to pass off the very real concerns of residents, regarding the seismic events that are being caused by fracking, comparing tremors to like “dropping bags of shopping” or the equivalent of a glass of milk shaking on a table – these are both responses that Cuadrilla deem to be suitable as “reassurance” to residents and the communities around their Preston New Road site.

“Earlier this year, former energy minister, Claire Perry MP said that: ‘It would be a very foolish politician who would do things that would be considered to be relaxing regulatory standards when we are trying to reassure people about safety.’”

“And yet, the fracking industry is heavily lobbying the government to shift the seismic traffic light system so that they would be able to cause larger tremors.

“This is not in the interests of the community and the government should strongly refuse this request, and not renege on their previous promise to maintain the current regulatory standards.”

The shadow industry secretary, Rebecca Long-Bailey, said:

“For residents of Lancashire that do not want earthquakes to become a part of daily life, do not want the air pollution, water pollution and climate change caused by fracking, I have a simple message: vote Labour. Labour will ban fracking”

“Cuadrilla cannot keep to regulations”

Jamie Peters, campaigner at Friends of the Earth, said:

“It’s obvious that fracking can’t be done without triggering earthquakes.

“This latest quake is a sign that Cuadrilla just can’t stick within the regulations they agreed.  Even small vibrations at ground level can be the sign of far more damaging impacts deep underground. Earthquake regulations must be maintained for the safety of local communities.

“52 seismic events in just 6 days of fracking and now the biggest earthquake at the site clearly underlines that this is absolutely not the time to start weakening regulations.

“Fracking just isn’t part of the future if the government is serious about avoiding climate breakdown, in fact it defies belief that the oil and gas industry think they are part of a response to climate change. It’s time to ban climate-wrecking fracking and back renewable energy and green jobs instead.”

Third trailing event

A third tremor, measuring 1.03ML was recorded at 15.23 GMT. This also counted as a trailing event. It was also felt by people living near the fracking site. The BGS said this had an intensity of 2.

A local resident said:

“This is the second earth tremor that I have heard in the space of two days. The fact that this latest one has occurred well over 24 hours since they last fracked emphasises the fact that they have little control and our concerns are increasing.”

Frack Free Lancashire said in a statement:

“Cuadrilla’s Francis Egan has been giving bland reassurances all over the media that ‘minor movements of this level are to be expected’.

“In spite of this we have now had no less than 3 seismic events which have exceeded the red level of the traffic light system since they stopped pumping yesterday afternoon. There have also been 2 amber level events.

“When events occur after pumping there is absolutely nothing that Cuadrilla can do to control them, and it is becoming abundantly clear that Cuadrilla are not able to frack at Preston New Road without triggering this type of event.

“Frack Free Lancashire now calls upon the government and its regulators to put an end to this experiment in which local residents are the unwilling guinea pigs. It is time to put this ailing industry out of its misery.”

Updated 23/8/2019 with details of a third trailing event and on 28 August 2019 to reference the EMS Intensities scale

More details on the 1.6ML tremor

103 replies »

  1. Oh well – I am not impressed by the debate on this thread. But I won’t let it bring me down. It is interesting listening to the current political & sociological discourse about climate change. I get a sense of Deja Vu. Yet everyone talks as if what we know is new. Strange days indeed. I heard that HS2 (perhaps it should have been called H2S?) May be scrapped. £7bn spent so far & probably more billions on law suites & compensation if it is scrapped. £7bn would have paid for several full scale CCS projects. Shame on you bad UK governance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7letrMf_nE

            • [Edited by moderator]

              I note the outcry regarding the fires in the Amazon, from the countries who have already removed their forests! Those farmers in Brazil will likely be wanting to have extra land maybe to grow sugar cane to turn into fuel for vehicles (pretty much a Brazilian growth sector) but if they visited an Internet café (unlikely) they might see with amazement how certain countries, who have cut down their forests, are growing wheat for the same purpose whilst they campaign not to remove fossil fuel from below ground!!

              Humanity has not lost its habit of saying, do as we say, not as we do. It is a toxic mix as people become more educated elsewhere in the world and find such arrogance as unacceptable.

  2. I see there was another tremor, mag 1.0 yesterday at 15.25, does that mean fracking will have to be suspended for another 18 hrs?

    • Hi Fifi, good morning to you, and thanks for returning to the subject of the post, at least you are asking the right questions, apparently according to the TLS agreement, it states that anything above a 0.5ML seismic event will require an 18 hour suspension of fracking operations to check the well integrity. I presume the EA will want to know the results of that.

      Clearly there is something happening to the local strata to trigger these surface events.

      Still we have not received any explanation of the implications of these “trailing events” from the “self claimed superior knowledge” of these so called experts and no verification to anything in fact just the usual polarisations of vitriol and false accusations that would be much more appropriately aimed at their own behaviour.

      But no matter, it appears that the course of true love of fracking does not run smooth, rather shaky in fact, to coin a phrase?

      We have not yet heard of any apologies or reassurance from Cuadrilla to the local residents yet either, apparently their concerns for their safety are of no interest to Cuadrilla and their jeerleaders here on Drill or Drop.

      Oops! I dared to express an opinion! Let’s see what emerges from the wordwork to decry that shall we?

      Well I’m off for the day, have a good one Fifi, and don’t take any gaslighting from these fossil fuel fools.

        • Phil C
          If you distrust those you describe as “so called experts”, assuming you mean the geologists and engineers involved in this project. Who’s knowledge and advice are you prepared to listen to, in other words what data and evidence are you willing to believe

          • How about Grant Hocking and Professor Peter Styles.

            “The tremors were predicted earlier this month by Grant Hocking, the founder and president of the US energy and environmental company, GeoSierra, which has reviewed previous Cuadrilla fracks at Preston New Road and at Preese Hall.

            He warned in emails to Cuadrilla, the Oil & Gas Authority (OGA), the British Geological Survey (BGS) and the Environment Agency (EA) that there were likely to be tremors when the second Preston New Road well was fracked this month.”

            • But tremors are to be expected, that wasn’t a difficult prediction.I would be more impressed if he had stated categorically that the tremors would be harmful to the environment

  3. Oh yes we have, PhilC.

    So, no, not expressing an opinion but actually making a factually incorrect statement. Somewhat different.

    Obviously everyone can not be in contact with every source of information but there will be some, even those on DoD, who have heard the apologies and reassurance.

    • Wrong, wrong and wrong again phil c
      Apologies have most certainly been given, but have they been received? Do you expect
      Cuadrilla go door to door to apologies?

      • Dear me! What a display Ele? Do you do any impressions which are not hysterical?

        Actually you betray yourself with your own words. Lets have a look shall we?

        “Apologies have most certainly been given, but have they been received? Do you expect
        Cuadrilla go door to door to apologies?”

        ”have almost certainly been given”? Almost certainly? That is not even approaching certainly now is it?
        I notice you dont post this ”almost certain” apology either?

        ”but have they been recieved?” You tell me, if an apology has not been recieved, then i was perfectly correct at the time i wrote it arent i? You cannot prove a negative Ele. Proof positive is required.

        Do i expect Cuadrilla to go door to door to apologise? Yes, or at the very least leave a written apology.

        Perhaps any local residents here could post such an elusive apology, but it would have to have been recieved and published before i posted my comment, as my powers of prediction regarding Cuadrilla are by no means god like, unlike yours aparently?

        Well this has been fun, have a nice day!

  4. Come off it Martin, we have seen no apologies from Cuadrilla, they are too busy trying to get the limits raised so they do not have to suspend their activities. They have no concerns for the local community, never have and never will, its all about the money, assuming they will ever make any, which I and many others doubt. they r reassurances are worthless, they come up with a different claim overtime, no different to a bag of shopping being dropped on the floor, what will it be next, an egg boiling in a pan, a kettle boiling or perhaps they might have to admit that it was serious enough for the residents to hear it and feel, let’s see some honesty.

    • Hi Punisher, quite right, the latest rubbish analogy was a glass of milk dropping on the floor wasnt it? It seems that there is a PR source of these laughable analogies, perhaps Cuadrilla should employ someone less hallucinogenic and more sane?

      Of course there can be no apology, since that would imply culpability and legal justification for suing Cuadrilla and the lawyers would veto that at the speed of a barristers fee claim.

      As you say, Cuadrilla have no concerns for local people, their health or their concerns, the suggestion that they have anything but contempt for the local concerned residents, is clearly the usual disinformation and fake, if not flake news.

    • Well, TP, you-along with others- were not aware of Mr Egan appearing on TV and doing exactly that.

      As I stated, what someone misses does not mean it did not happen.

      (I think it was BBC, but I was multi tasking at the time. If it wasn’t them, it was Sky. I probably would have missed it completely if my attention had not been drawn to the prior interview with an anti and I was required to concentrate a little to translate into English.)

      But, if it makes you feel better, and supports your agenda, for it not to have happened, feel free-but not informed. I might access some form of media today to see how badly the cricket is going. Maybe if I do not, it will not have happened? Now, there’s a plan!

      • Please provide a link to the text and time and date of this elusive “apology” Martian, i see no reference to it anywhere.

      • Martin. I’m not sure which interview you are referring to, as you seem a little confused yourself. However, if it was the interview on BBC North West Tonight which I recorded, I watched it and have just rewatched it and can assure you Francis Egan made no apology.
        Regarding the interviews with the antis. There was one recorded in the home of a gentleman who lives close to the site where he explained very eloquently how he and his wife had both heard and felt the seismic event. He appeared, rightly, to be insulted by Cuadrilla’s likening the event to dropping a bag of shopping. As far as the other interview with one of the anti frackers. That particular lady has now spent almost 3 years observing Cuadrilla’s operations at PNR so is well qualified to comment. I was standing right next to her when that interview was made. What was it you felt the need to translate? She actually speaks very clearly in a beautiful North Scottish accent which I have never had any problem understanding.

        • Yes, she had an accent, Pauline and also the habit of applying a limited number of letters from the alphabet to the words she used. A common habit these days and if you have 3 years experience of that combo, I can understand you not having a problem. I am just about picking up Beth Ri-by from Sky!

          With regard to Mr. Egan, I am not aware of your local viewing, only my own on main news. Perhaps Mr. Egan has done a number of interviews, or one big one that is then edited? Think you will find both are quite common.

          It seems I was not alone in viewing it, but if it gives you some comfort that I was, feel free. No confusion my end, just that I was busy on another task and did not feel it worth my time to record the details for others. I have no reason to be dishonest and if others have a reason to suggest that I am, then that is not my problem.

          Now, if it had been the piece of information I was more interested in, I might have done so. That piece of info. is whether the current methodology is achieving more effective fractures underground and will that lead to more gas being produced. After all, is that not why testing is being done in the way it is being done?

          • Martin. Regarding the BBC North West Tonight broadcast which you had such difficulty in translating. I simply relayed the facts as far as I saw them at the time and after reminding myself of them by replaying the recording. I in no way accused you of being dishonest but Francis Egan definitely made no apology. Your comment that one of those interviewed was applying a limited numbers of letters of the alphabet to words used is quite frankly mystifying. I found her comments, albeit heavily edited, perfectly simple to understand – both in accent and content.
            As regards your being more interested in whether Cuadrilla’s latest operations are achieving more effective fractures, I doubt it. If they were I’m sure they would be shouting it from the rooftops. As it is, they seem to be staying very tight lipped about the whole thing.

            • Yes, Pauline as you stated you had 3 years to understand. I had less than 3 minutes, and doing something else at the time. So, no real issue. I used to work a lot in Scotland and found no problem with people in the south regarding understanding. North of Aberdeen, after a couple of weeks, no problem either.

              You are also confusing yourself with what you saw and what I and others saw. Perhaps check a bit more regarding how TV news is recorded and broadcast, although you should not need to as you clearly state your friend was heavily edited ie, what one news outlet decides to broadcast is not necessarily the whole of the interview and other outlets may decide differently. Watch Mr. Trump (you know you want to) and you will see that a lot-but, for different reasons.

              You also seem sure about something that is premature-think that is speculation, not certainty. Once they have the work completed they will know. Until then, they will not. I will await the reality. You antis are an impatient lot.

        • Thanks for posting that Pauline, i thought someone would have seen the same interview. Fortunately i don’t watch television, and my time for radio and internet is limited and by no means selective. Do you have a time and date for that interview by the way?

          Maybe only that person heard what he wanted to hear and no one else heard it? Not “unheard” from that quarter is it? As the opposite of that condition from that quarter is also historically evidential.

          I cant believe that any television program would edit out an apology from anyone, they live for such things and would have sold someone else’s soul for such an apology from Francis Egan, and would have sold it to every media agency far and wide wouldn’t they?

          Perhaps one of those interviewed was wearing a beard? Or hadn’t shaved that morning? Or was wearing non stereotypical ethnic clothing? That seems to be a bone, or rather a follicle or indeed a fibre, of contention from that quarter doesn’t it?

          I found this comment to be interesting too:

          “Obviously everyone can not be in contact with every source of information but there will be some, even those on DoD, who have heard the apologies and reassurance.”

          That can be easily verified by relative perspective cant it, since i do not watch television. From my perspective, i was perfectly correct in my comment at the time i said it.

          The “we” for which i include us both and anyone else who didn’t see or hear anything that constituted an apology in that interview was perfectly correct in our assumption that no apology had been made by Francis Egan.

          Ipso Facto, my comment is perfectly correct, as is yours.

          Fascinating isnt it? That we have to go to these lengths to establish even the tiniest of facts in their true perspective.

          I hope you are having a good Saturday Pauline.

          • Hi Phil. The piece I referred to was the first item on BBC North West Tonight shown at 6.30 last Thursday. I purposely recorded it because I had been present when the BBC man came down to PNR and I was interested to see how they portrayed the situation. Francis Egan definitely didn’t apologise and attempted as usual to downplay the whole thing.
            There were actually very few of us at the roadside at that time, when the BBC man and his cameraman came down. We were all women and children, no one with a beard I’m afraid. The reporter asked both myself and the other lady if we would provide an interview. I declined and the Scottish lady Martin seems to have such difficulty understanding spoke very clearly and succinctly. As I said, she is a person who has been present almost continuously since Cuadrilla began at PNR. Ultimately, when I watched it, the interview had been heavily edited but her comments and accent, which I for one find particularly attractive, were perfectly easy to understand.
            I agree with you that although the BBC edited my friend’s interview, I doubt very much they would have edited out an apology made by Francis Egan. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if Cuadrilla insisted on seeing the final version of the interview with Egan before it was shown, just as they have made the BGS sign a gagging order.

            Have a good weekend. The lull before the storm when Cuadrilla Rev up again on Tuesday.

            • Hi Pauline, thanks for replying, I shall try to track that interview down, it’s good to hear from you as you were there and the other quarter was not.

              A bit of a storm in a tea cup really isn’t it, but if they will challenge every word, then what the heck, let’s get to the bottom pressure of it and discover the truth, rather than the officious obfuscation story.

              Thanks Pauline, you have a good weekend yourself, and yes, I wonder what the BGS will censor of any future breaches under the TLS NDA?

          • So, you don’t watch TV but were able to state it had not happened!!

            Based upon -lets see-oh, speculation.

            Ipso Facto-speculation is not reality.

            Fascinating isn’t it? Being unaware of something but still posting a definite “fact”. Not the first time.

            Yes, a true perspective is rather important. Speculation can be fun, but looks a bit daft when it turns to fabrication.

            Listening to the cricket now Pauline (multi tasking again), so it has happened. (Unless someone has infiltrated the BBC.) Actually, it would have happened whether I heard it or not.

            But enjoy your weekend. I have the rest of the cricket to hear before the rugby highlights feature so I can tell that it actually happened as the outcome posted may only be true when I have seen the match. LOL.Goodness, this takes me back to when my kids played junior football and they placed their hands over their eyes when the other team took a penalty, so they didn’t see the ball into the net, and so, it did not happen! Then they found the answer-don’t give away penalties.

            • You getting creepy too, oh sorry, that was already a given wasnt it?

              Dear me! Still trying to redeem some credibility Martian? A bit desperately sad isnt it? I am afraid….actually, no i am not afraid at all, that your repetitive incredulity in this illusive “Egan apology” nonsense is somewhat of a dead duck and beginning to smell all the way to West Newton and back. In fact i think we are beginning to get a distinct whiff of it here on Drill or Drop too! Phew!

              I will always put more store in Pauline’s account as she was there and watched and recorded the BBC interview than someone who wasnt there and yet claimed Francis Egan apologised on camera when he clearly did not and no one saw him do so. As i said to Pauline, that would have been broadcast everywhere, and the internet would be full of it, and they are not. So it didnt happen, maybe it was that infamous imaginary friend of yours perhaps.

              Drill or Drop the dead apology duck Martian, before it raises the spectre of all those other dead ducks of your acquaintance and we get a hoard of zombie ducks quacking “Quaaackkk!!!! Francis Egan did not quaaackking apologise! Quaaackk!!”

              I did enjoy that!

              Have a nice Sunday.

    • Probably for foul and abusive language and/or personal insults. Sorry Eli-Goth but you drove me to it!
      Plus of course comments which are off topic!

    • Hi Michael, thanks for your comment.

      Comments posted on DrillOrDrop may be removed if they are in conflict with our Comments policy, which you can see at https://drillordrop.com/2017/01/07/new-year-new-comment-policy/

      In particular, we look to remove comments which are off-topic and comments which “play the man not the ball”, attacking someone for who they are, rather than dealing with the substance of what they say.

      We also want comments to be a safe and legal area where anyone feels able to contribute to the discussion, and we will remove comments that put that at risk.

    • I would imagine that the site moderators removed any petty and childish personal attacks against persons not posting on this site and in the process spared the perpetrators the embarrassment of being called out for previously making failed groundless and vexatious professional standards complaints against people.

      The real shame is that in the process of removing the [edited by moderator] original post any replies made in defence of the falsely accused and those made against the petty minded complaints also disappear.

      • The real shame is that those who acknowledge the policy, then immediately decide not to! Not too much reading required to validate that. No link required.

        • Martian, you seem to know all about missing links! Whereas I like to deal only in facts, so I’ll leave the hyperbole, proselytising and character assignations to you , the not so Reverend Roberts and the sites other profracktavists.

          • Well, that says a lot! LOL

            You wouldn’t be the same guy who had such an issue with CP gate crashing a meeting, suggesting that would not happen, so it had to be rubbish, or dishonesty?

            Maybe not.

  5. Guardian article today for Sherwulfe and PhilC, and anyone else who believes leading by example in the UK, we will save our planet and that human nature will somehow be overcome – must have gone to the Paul Tresto school of reality:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/23/greening-your-life-global-approach

    “Emmanuel Macron wants the future of the Amazon rainforest to be top of the agenda at the meeting of the G7 he is hosting this weekend in Biarritz, but this is an empty gesture. There is not the remotest possibility of the G7 doing anything to rein in the activities of Brazil’s rightwing president, Jair Bolsonaro. Indeed, Macron’s own experience shows how hard it is to translate a desire to curb carbon emissions into practical action. The French president said making driving more expensive was a price worth paying in the fight against global heating but faced nationwide protests from the yellow vest movement. For the gilets jaunes, the immediate threat to their livelihoods mattered more than the long-term threat posed by the climate crisis.”

    “Sales of meat and dairy products are rising fast in China because rapid growth means households can afford fridges. In the grand scheme of things, that matters a lot more to global heating than universities banning beef from their canteens.

    China and India currently have much lower rates of car ownership than countries in the west, but as they grow richer their new middle classes will inevitably seek to emulate western consumers. The number of cars per thousand people are as follows: the US, 811; the UK, 471; China, 179; India, 22. There are 2.8 billion people in China and India. Do the maths. Africa accounted for one in five of the world’s live births in the 1990s, but by the end of the next decade it will be one in three. Demand for energy will soar as the population rises.”

    This what we need to plan for and quickly.

    • Interesting Paul, but events seem to have superseded that fatalistic opinion of yours regarding Jair Messias Bolsonaro, interestingly, Messias means “gift of god”??? Yeah right! He has ordered the Brazilian Army, Martian should like them, to fight the Amazon fires. No doubt they will all be carrying a torch for their saviour Bolsonaro, probably a lit torch.

      https://www.scmp.com/news/world/americas/article/3024162/brazils-jair-bolsonaro-mulls-deploying-army-contain-amazon

      Bolsonaro also bizarrely claimed that the fires were started by NGO’s and environmental groups??

      Jair Messias Bolsonaro sounds like one of those conspiracy theorists you like so much Paul!

      https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/bolsonaros-conspiracy-theories-are-making-brazils-rainforest-wildfires-worse-75441

      As for French President Emmanuel Jean-Michel Frédéric Macron, as you say he has his own problems and is also carrying a torch, and a riot shield, and a truncheon, and a tear gas grenade or a dozen, and driving a water cannon truck, to merely stay in power as the riots, which he instigated by violence, rage throughout France and now in Europe. Macrons unmarked riot asuads have deliberately fired into peoples faces, blinding some and badly injuring many more, and he calls them “hateful”, which is as usual hypocritical.

      https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2019/01/french-police-s-brutality-against-gilets-jaunes-can-no-longer-be-denied

      No Paul, as i have pointed out before, but its worth repeating, that the original Paris marches were against the carbon tax, which was later withdrawn, but the latter marches were because President Macron has concentrated power and tax relief for the rich and powerful and selling off just about everything he could get his sticky hands on, and has simultaneously penalised and overtaxed the poor, who can no longer afford to live no matter how many jobs they take to try and make ends meet. Those carbon taxes could not have been born by the average French citizen, they were all ready in the deepest depression in recent history, whilst the rich and powerful were given tax breaks to pay for such a carbon tax many times over.

      Those marches only descended into violence because the Paris Police refused to stop the marches and even took off their helmets and lowered their weapons. It was Macron who employed these latest thug enforcers and break the law every day by targeting individual women and children and firing weapons tear gas and hard projectile weapons directly into their faces, which is illegal.

      French President Emmanuel Jean-Michel Frédéric Macron cannot admit to what is happening to France, and therefore in typical attempts at appearing to be a world statesman, since his home situation is so insane, he seeks to bolster his international status by making these appeals to other countries whilst continuing his own hate filled campaign against the poor.

      I see you are still harping on about China and other countries as the big bad wolfs to project in shadows on the bedroom walls, but i still say that rather than that defeatist fatalistic attitude you show there, which indicates you want nothing to be done because its all just too much trouble and expensive, and its all hopeless and we might as well all give up…..but China is doing more than we in the UK are doing arent they? So why not us? Inertia? Profit? Power? influence? All of those will be as nothing to what we will have to do if the 6th major extinction event is allowed to accelerate.

      Dear Me, what a defeatist attitude?

      You should speak to SL on the previous page, because he doesn’t seem to think that there is a climate problem at all, let alone an anthropogenic problem? I look forwards to you two having long conversations about China and India and Brazil and whether those countries have any effect at all on the climate degradation or the 6th major extinction event in history?

      The simple truth however, is that everything must change in the way we pollute and ransack the planet out of greed for profit and power, however you wish to define it. That needs to start here and now in the first country to have a so called industrial revolution and the long term legacy of neglect and destruction of the planets resources.

      If we dont start here, no matter how small at first, then nothing will change anywhere else, and it always starts at home and with our own government and the corporations that prowl the lobby rooms and fossil fuel. if we commit to the declared climate emergency and actually DO something fundamental about it then others will follow and China and India will follow our lead.

      But doing nothing motivates no one, and they will just bumble on as before.

      There is hope in China if they don’t turn rabid with the Hong Kong situation, they have at least committed towards electrification of their vehicle fleet and solar power is spreading everywhere, that technology should have been initiated here in Britain so we had better catch up and catch up fast with our own renewable technological advances anf fundamental infrastructure advances, or we will be paying them for their technological innovations that we should have been selling to the world.

      So, no Paul, defeatism will get us nowhere fast and merely extend this insane single reliance on just fossil fuels.

      • Hi Phil C – actually the article is written by the Guardian and the quotes are from the article – not me – but thanks for the accreditation. Read the article. The Guardian is “harping on about China and other countries as the big bad wolfs to project…..”.

        Although I do agree with most if not all of the content of the article.

        • Ahh, The Guardian, right! But I didn’t mentioned the Guardian did i, i was referring to the text of your comment, or was that a cut and paste job?

          Perhaps you should discuss that with SL too? A denier and a fatalist believer, neither doing anything but talking? That should be fascinating….meanwhile the rest of us will at least try to DO something about it.

          When you two have finally decided who is right, just look out of the window, either the sky will be clear and bright and the birds will be singing the joys of anthropogenic innocence and joy, or it will be black fossil fuel clouds of burning forests ancient and modern, and there will be a deathly silence of anthropogenic guilt and horror. And then you can discuss it all over again.

  6. I think Macron will find that USA, China and Russia have the ability to bully another country into doing as they want. France does not, and any attempt will be more likely to draw a negative response.

    If I was a cynic, I would suggest there is also something around protecting French agriculture from more open trade deals with more efficient farming countries. Has been done many times before. A pretty effective form of protectionism.

    Shame really. I believe this matter could have been sorted a lot better with diplomacy rather than bullying.

  7. Perhaps the clue is in the first seven words of my post Phil C: “Guardian article today for Sherwulfe and PhilC”

    Yes, it was all cut and paste from the Guardian. What or who is SL?

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