Industry

Updated: Cuadrilla to pay “few hundred pounds” for homes said to be damaged by fracking tremor

191028 Cuadrilla letter

Cuadrilla offer of “goodwill payment” to resident who reported damage from the August fracking-induced earth tremor

Cuadrilla has said it will make small goodwill payments to people living near its Lancashire shale gas site who said their homes were damaged by the UK’s largest fracking-induced tremor in August.

The company said it would pay residents “a few hundred pounds” for redecorating.

The 2.9ML tremor on 26 August reportedly caused cracks to buildings and damage to windows and doors across the Fylde area around Blackpool. DrillOrDrop understands that about 100 claims were made to Cuadrilla.

We reported last month that several residents had been offered the goodwill payments and some had turned them down. They told us that the company had not admitted liability for the damage. Other residents had been refused payments after initial assessments by administrative staff from the company.

1909 PNR earthquake damage uwoc

Cracks in mortar reportedly caused by Cuadrilla’s fracking-induced tremors. Photo: Used with the owner’s consent

In an interview with the PA news agency, Cuadrilla’s chief executive, Francis Egan, said today there was no clear evidence that the tremor caused the damage.

“It would be impossible to say if that was caused by the tremor, or is it just natural settlement in the building.

“But we do want to retain goodwill, so we will make some payments.”

He said no “major damage” has been reported by people living close to the Preston New Road site.

Residents will be paid a few hundred pounds to help cover the price of redecorating rooms where plaster work has cracked, he said.

Mr Egan also told PA that “obviously egregious” claims for damage had been sent to the company.

“Lots of people have showed us cracks with weeds growing out of them, for example, or cracks that when you look on Rightmove you can see the exact same cracks in photographs taken well before the tremor.”

DrillOrDrop invited Cuadrilla to add to the comments by Mr Egan but it declined.

Updated 30 October 2019 with “goodwill payment” letter 

55 replies »

  1. In the times Mr Egan is reported to have said ( in addition to that above ).

    A small number of claims had been sent to its insurer and would be investigated further.

    So …. cash payments offered where the company do not accept liability and a few off to their insurance company where they may.

    • Cuadrilla seem to be on a tight budget. The price stated on the land registry relating to the Preese Hall site was a poultry £8000.

      When Cuadrilla leased land around the Becconsall site they found it was already leased to a local gun club. I met with the farmer who ran the club. He told me that Cuadrilla had approached him with an offer of £500 to not shoot those fields. My how we laughed. Cuadrilla seriously thought that a wealthy land owner would be swayed by a measly 500 quid. Enough to buy a couple of Range Rover tyres. Maybe £50,000 would have been considered but £500. I kid you not.That is how much they offered.

      Needless to say Cuadrilla had to find alternative fields for bird mitigation.

    • So, now we have an admission of damage by default…..I guess the insurance premiums will go up next time, or no insurance at all?

      It’s a bit like ‘I’ve just run you off the road and my insurance will pay for your total paralysis and inability to work again, but it wasn’t my fault……’

      The script gets better and more absurd.

      • Sherwulfe

        Any increase in insurance premium cost or refusal to insure ( against a particular risk ) may depend on a few factors, but it is primarily about how many claims there has been and how much insurance companies have had to pay out.

        For the existing damage claimed I have not seen here on DOD any figures for damage claimed, and redress sought, from the owners house insurance.

        If you think that your house has been damaged and wish to claim through your insurance ( rather than accept a Cuadrilla offer of cash, or if you are one of the cases referred to Cuadrilla Insurer, await the outcome ) then you would need to contact the insurer and describe the damage observed.

        However, looking at the pictures on DoD, damage does not appear to be major or extensive. So I doubt that there have been many expensive claims on insurance policies yet.

        No doubt the insurance companies are keeping an eye out on the situation, although they may have to wait a long time before there is another induced 2.9 seismic event in the fylde.

        I am also slightly surprised that no one who feels that their property has been damaged by fracking, and having refused Cash or has had a claim rejected by Cuadrilla, has not asked their insurance company to help claim against Cuadrilla through a legal expenses feature ( common in vehicle policies and available for and included in some property policies ).

        Maybe one will turn up ( early days yet ).

        https://bobatoo.co.uk/blog/fracking-home-insurance-questions-answered/

        https://www.gocompare.com/home-insurance/legal-expenses-and-home-insurance/

        • I agree in most cases Hewes this is how insurance works; this case is possibly one which would require reinsurance to continue, such as that for crop damage from extreme weather.

          The question to ask is how will Cuadrilla pay? They don’t generate income? The investors are jittery; the product defunct?

          Happy that no fracking sometime soon; better not at all…..

          • Sherwulfe

            It looks as if they have sufficient cash to offer it out without admission of fault, as noted here, or the insurance company will pay in a few cases ( presumably the more expensive ones ).
            This for existing issues.
            I do not think that they will have another go at fracking in the fylde.
            Plus..
            I suspect that the insurance company was keen to impress on Cuadrilla staff, during their initial screening visits, that they could not say that the company accepted liability for any damage observed, that would be up to the insurance company to decide (as they do re car insurance ).

            • Hewes; it appears that the two options are separate – Cuadrilla are raiding the Christmas meal fund to pay out the cosmetic damage to houses (saves the excess on the policy, me thinks) and the bigger claims are under assessment by the insurance; perhaps best not to get them mixed up, eh?

              Liability is a funny concept
              The dictionary has two definitions:
              1. the state of being legally responsible for something. (put a negative in the sentence and suddenly you’re off the hook, whether you did it or not….)
              2. a person or thing whose presence or behaviour is likely to put one at a disadvantage

              Perhaps number two is better applied to Cuadrilla activities on the Fylde 🙂

              • Sherwulfe

                Yes, no turkey dinner this year for them I guess.

                I suspect that their decommissioning costs will be more than the cash offered out in goodwill, and they have paid for insurance, so if they only get back the premiums paid, I think that would be sufficient.

                Meanwhile ( looking at the updated picture to this DoD report ), there are a lot of houses which will exhibit cracks due to low levels of seismic activity due to poor foundations and other structural issues.

                As such, I expect that Cuadrilla insurers would be happier if 1.6 was not exceeded, and unhappy that a 2.9 turned up ( but happier that the OGA stepped in to save their bacon ).

                However, should the home owners ever seek to claim on their insurance for such damage following a natural seismic event, then loss adjusters are likely to refuse claims if the root cause of the issue is something other than ground vibration.

                • No general house insurance policies cover you for ‘natural’ seismic events.
                  Damage by a significant ‘natural’ earthquake will be only be rectified by government intervention on declaring a national emergency….

                • Natural seismic events are a common peril, and normally covered by your house insurance.

                  Here is a link from a guardian piece post the large Lincolnshire earthquake.

                  https://www.theguardian.com/money/2008/feb/27/homeinsurance.insurance

                  Or telegraph

                  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1580012/Is-earthquake-damage-covered-by-insurance.html

                  Or this direct line information comment

                  https://www.directline.com/home-cover/what-is-act-of-god

                  If natural seismic events were not covered, then house insurance premiums would not rise for such events?

                  However, it is structural damage that you insure against. In the weald there was some garden movement ( see past DOD reports ) which is not insured. Reparation costs were put at £200,000 per property for 3 of them.

                  If an event was extremely large then the insurance companies may balk at covering the full cost

                • ‘Insurance companies aren’t trying to catch you out. They look at where you live and assess the risks in your area. If your home isn’t covered automatically, you can normally add on optional extras to boost your cover.’
                  from your link from Direct

                • Sherwulfe

                  I can only speak for my experience.

                  I have insured houses from 1979 to date in the UK. In all cases they were insured against natural earthquake as part of the cover provided, without paying an additional premium. This in mining areas as well as not ( though I never had to claim for it ).

                  Locations were, Notts ( 4 ) Aberdeenshire (3) , N Yorkshire ( near West Newton )(1). Lincolnshire (1) Relatives in Derbyshire and Lincolnshire have commented on such insurance in the past, as two lived within 1 mile of the large Market Rasen Earthquake. They too were insured, as part of their existing insurance, although the slight damage did not exceed the excess ( a few cracks ).

                  It may have been something I did not notice, but all but the last house had a mortgage, and therefore had approved ( but not bought through them ) insurance.

                  The citizens advice bureau notes that it is normally included.

                  https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/insurance/insurance/types-of-insurance/buildings-insurance/

                  The direct line info notes that it is normally included, but best check.

                  https://www.directline.com/home-cover/what-is-act-of-god

                  So.. it may well be that some insurers do not include this, and if readers of this site have insurance that does not include such insurance, then it would be good to know ( and they may feel they need it ).

  2. Puts a slightly different light upon the subject!

    There I was thinking Cuadrilla were purchasing houses at a “few hundred pounds”!! Oh, how the English language can be adapted.

  3. Thanks for the “young”, delayed reaction!

    “Odds fish m’dear”??? “My self”??? Plus an Emoji! Volumes “spoken” within so little to say.

    That English A level long forgotten? Or, the brain cells being eroded by all those diesel fumes?

    • Just an erroneous autocorrect adding a space Martian.

      I have to confess I may not spend quite as much time concentrating on replying to your comments as you no doubt imagine they deserve 😉

  4. Maybe if you are so careless with your replies, old fruit, better not to reply at all? Another case of not seeing the cracks for the weeds?

    Does tend to suggest accuracy is not your first consideration, especially when you mark your own “work” with “could do better”!

    I await that day with great anticipation. Now my years have been rolled back, I may have enough time left.

    • Goodness Martian! If we had to apply a quality control to all comments on DoD the amount of “wisdom” (collywibble) you share with us all so freely would be hugely reduced 😉 Maybe I should suggest it to the moderators?

  5. Ahh, the delayed reaction surrender bill-the royal “we” is mobilised! Nice to see the art of deflection is (just about) alive and well, though.

    Good of you to mention the “freely”. So, some are not being financed? Careful, there are those who might find that enough to excommunicate.

    But, must leave you to have some more fun, whilst I get to grips with the timer on my air sourced heat to save me getting up early to operate. Have not bothered up to now, but seems there could be another Beast over the horizon.

  6. Please gentlemen don’t waste quite so much space here on your comedic exchanges. I do love comedy but fracking, and cracking of your home, is serious.So I’d prefer to choose my comedy elsewhere when I want it. Thanks

  7. Reading posts is not compulsory, dc. Delayed reaction seems to find enjoyment from mine, expressed by endless Emojis, but I have a number of antis I rarely read and maybe that is why I don’t post a stream of doom and gloom.

    With all due respect, if you do so it is you who decide and choose. A little bit of comedy does lighten the mood for those who are constantly fed a diet of incorrect information, from some who believe causing anxiety is their responsibility.

    I prefer to choose my poetry elsewhere when I want that, but for those who have different tastes, something approaching poetry can also be found on this site.

    A broad church-and like most churches not all come for the hell and damnation sermons.

    • Yes, reading posts is not at all compulsory MC, very good advice, i will treat your output accordingly in future as i am sure many do all ready.

      Meanwhile back on the real planet, real people are standing up and speaking their truth in whatever manner suits the occasion. Without limits without boundaries and petty restrictions. Writers and poets, actors and free men and women and children, all ages, all walks of life, all races, all together as one in love and respect. The present climate deterioration situation demands no less.

      XR Writers Rebel – “In the third age money became a God”, Margaret Atwood – Extinction Rebellion

      also

      https://www.theguardian.com/books/2009/sep/26/margaret-atwood-mini-science-fiction

      “Time capsule found on the dead planet
      by Margaret Atwood

      1. In the first age, we created gods. We carved them out of wood; there was still such a thing as wood, then. We forged them from shining metals and painted them on temple walls. They were gods of many kinds, and goddesses as well. Sometimes they were cruel and drank our blood, but also they gave us rain and sunshine, favourable winds, good harvests, fertile animals, many children. A million birds flew over us then, a million fish swam in our seas.

      Our gods had horns on their heads, or moons, or sealy fins, or the beaks of eagles. We called them All-Knowing, we called them Shining One. We knew we were not orphans. We smelled the earth and rolled in it; its juices ran down our chins.

      2. In the second age we created money. This money was also made of shining metals. It had two faces: on one side was a severed head, that of a king or some other noteworthy person, on the other face was something else, something that would give us comfort: a bird, a fish, a fur-bearing animal. This was all that remained of our former gods. The money was small in size, and each of us would carry some of it with him every day, as close to the skin as possible. We could not eat this money, wear it or burn it for warmth; but as if by magic it could be changed into such things. The money was mysterious, and we were in awe of it. If you had enough of it, it was said, you would be able to fly.

      3. In the third age, money became a god. It was all-powerful, and out of control. It began to talk. It began to create on its own. It created feasts and famines, songs of joy, lamentations. It created greed and hunger, which were its two faces. Towers of glass rose at its name, were destroyed and rose again. It began to eat things. It ate whole forests, crop lands and the lives of children. It ate armies, ships and cities. No one could stop it. To have it was a sign of grace.

      4. In the fourth age we created deserts. Our deserts were of several kinds, but they had one thing in common: nothing grew there. Some were made of cement, some were made of various poisons, some of baked earth. We made these deserts from the desire for more money and from despair at the lack of it. Wars, plagues and famines visited us, but we did not stop in our industrious creation of deserts. At last all wells were poisoned, all rivers ran with filth, all seas were dead; there was no land left to grow food.

      Some of our wise men turned to the contemplation of deserts. A stone in the sand in the setting sun could be very beautiful, they said. Deserts were tidy, because there were no weeds in them, nothing that crawled. Stay in the desert long enough, and you could apprehend the absolute. The number zero was holy.

      5. You who have come here from some distant world, to this dry lake shore and this cairn, and to this cylinder of brass, in which on the last day of all our recorded days I place our final words:

      Pray for us, who once, too, thought we could fly.”

      If these things are beyond us, and we carry on destroying our own nest, then we have not understood anything and we belong back in the dust that we came from, so that better things can grow from our remains.

  8. But not commuters, AT! Seems they feel much is not beyond them.

    Meanwhile, antis travel by train, so not local, to HH.

    Some certainly have not understood anything.

    Fiction has its place, but is not the same as reality, eg. deserts exist with or without man. So do ice ages. It has something to do with solar activity (not a constant)-amongst other things. Interestingly, there are large chunks of desert that are now blooming and producing food, thanks to funding from oil and gas.

    Good job Cuadrilla are helping to fund science education. There will be those who want to miss out on education and provide their inputs based upon that, there will be others who embrace education and provide their inputs based upon that. The latter will supply the solutions, the former will simply provide the anxiety for the latter to solve.

    Hardly new.

    • Jay Griffiths, “What we’re doing is utterly utterly necessary and right…” – Extinction Rebellion

      Some more poetical prose to lighten your darkness. Free and open, not restricted and confined by anyone.

      Why We Rebel
      Jay Griffiths

      “Sometimes it falls upon a generation to be great, said Mandela.
      History is calling from the future, a hundred years from now.
      Half a hundred years.

      Ten.

      Today.

      Calling the conscience of humanity to act with the fierce urgency of now.

      This is the time.

      Wherever we are standing is the place.

      We have just this one flickering instant to hold the winds of worlds in our hands, to vouchsafe the future.

      This is what destiny feels like.

      We have to be greater than we have ever been, dedicated, selfless, self-sacrificial.

      The third world war — of profit versus life — is already underway.

      Humanity itself is on the brink of the abyss: our potential extinction.
      We face a breakdown of all life, the tragedy of tragedies: the unhallowed horror.

      Time is broken and buckled, and seasons are out of step so even the plants are confused.

      Ancient wisdoms are being betrayed: to every thing there was a season, a time to be born and a time to be a child, protected and cared for, but the young are facing a world of chaos and harrowing cruelty.

      In the delicate web of life, everything depends on everything else: we are nature and it is us, and the extinction of the living world is our suicide. Not one sparrow can now be beneath notice, not one bee.

      Something in the human spirit, too, is threatened with extinction.

      Many feel exhausted, ignored, lonely and anxious. Humiliated by poverty and inequality, crushed by debt, powerless, controlled and trapped, many feel defrauded of what should rightly be theirs.

      Societies are polarised, people estranged from each other and sundered from the living world.

      Only when it is dark enough can you see the stars, and they are lining up now to write rebellion across the skies.

      There is no choice.

      This is a rebellion for the young people and for the ancestors.

      This is for the turtle and the salamander, the dugong and the dove. It is for the finned, furry and feathered ones, the ones who scamper and swim, the chattering, chirping and hooting ones.

      This is for the forests and the forest medicines, for the trees of wisdom, the trees of life and the living waters of the Nile and the Yangtze, the Tigris and the Ganges.

      This is for the seven seas, in seven directions, down to the seventh generation.

      This is for the Great Song that runs underneath all the melodies, the rhythms of rain and sun, the rhymes of polar ice. We humans sang before we spoke, and we still know the song, though the harmonies are jangled and the melodies flung out of tune.

      Each generation is given two things: one is the gift of the world, and the other is the duty of keeping it safe for those to come.

      The generations of yesterday trust those of today not to take more than their share, and those of tomorrow trust their elders to care for it.

      The contract is broken, and it is happening on our watch.

      A pathological obsession with money and profit is engineering this breakdown. Warped and spiritually desolate, this system is contemptuous of humanity and the living world, and held in place by a toxic media (power without truth); by toxic finance (power without compassion); and toxic politics (power without principle).

      The world’s resources are being seized faster than the natural world can replenish them.

      Children can do the maths on this, and know they are being sent the bill.

      And the young are in rebellion now.

      This is their time, their fire.

      The flame is theirs and they are lighting the way.

      Why?

      Because they are the touchstone of nations, carrying the moral authority of innocence. Because they have not lived long enough to have their clear vision dimmed: this is not a game — it is about life and death and they know it.

      Because they are young enough to know cheating is wrong and old enough to see they have been cheated of their safety, their dreams and their future.

      Because they are young enough to be awed by the magic of living creatures and old enough to be heartbroken by their slaughter.

      Because they are young enough to know it is wrong to lie and old enough to use the right words: this is an emergency.

      Worldwide, the heaviest emissions have been produced by the richest nations, while the heaviest consequences are being felt by the poorest.

      The few have sown the wind, and are forcing the many to reap the whirlwind.

      Reparation is needed.

      So is recognition: that Europe stole its wealth through its imperialism, colonialism and slavery.

      So is respect: that the global South has resisted for hundreds of years, knowing that a shining kind of courage can end centuries of wrong.

      Indigenous cultures have suffered the devastation of their lands, the extinction of their languages, knowledge and wisdom. And in their rebellions they have long evoked an Earth manifesto, saying we are the land: as earth-guardians, we are nature defending itself; land is alive, unfathomably deep, and there is intelligence within nature, thinking, spirited and alive.

      Extinction Rebellion is young, old, black, white, indigenous, of all faiths and none, of all genders and sexualities and none: being alive on earth now is all the qualification required.

      It is a rebellion against the heartless, loveless and lifeless delusion of seeing Earth as dead matter; against patriarchy’s domination and control of women and the Earth, against heterosexism that condemns the beauty of diverse love, against the militarism that destroys living lands, wages war for oil and kills those who protect the green world.

      This rebellion uses the finest weapons: peace, truth and love. It is strictly non-violent as an active stance — Ahimsa — preventing violence. For this, it is willing to take disruptive, loving and effective direct action, thinking big.

      Take the planet off the stock market.

      Make ecocide law.

      Rebel with cause.

      Rebel with creativity.

      Rebel with compassion.

      Rebel together because together we are irresistible.

      Tell the Truth is the first demand of Extinction Rebellion, using fearless speech, Gandhi’s ‘truth-force’ which creates a change of heart.

      People are not stupid: people feel a pervasive uneasiness at the extremes of weather, the floods, droughts and hurricanes, but they have the legal and moral right to be fully informed of the speed and scale of the crisis.

      Extinction Rebellion’s vision is a politics of kindness rendered consistently and unapologetically.

      Its vision depends on values that are the most ordinary and therefore the most precious: human decency, dignity, responsibility, fairness, duty, honesty, morality and care.

      With Citizens’ Assemblies, it believes that when people are given good information, they make good decisions.

      This rebellion is regenerative, arriving with armfuls of cake and olives, bread and oranges.

      It reconfigures older and wiser ways of living while voicing the grief and fear of these times.

      It creates communities of belonging, with mentoring and eldership, where everyone’s contribution is welcome. Rooted in radical compassion, trust, reverence and respect, the finest technology we have is love.

      With serious, clear-eyed urgency, we have to mobilise now for deep adaptation for what is inevitable.

      Humans are by nature cooperative, and times of crisis can be times when life is lived transcendently, for a purpose beyond the self.

      No individual alone is fully human, as the African concept Ubuntu shows: our humanity results from being in connection with each other. Believing that there is no Them and Us, only all of us together, Extinction Rebellion seeks alliances wherever they can be found.

      We are fighting for our lives and if we do not link arms, we will fail because the forces we are up against are simply too powerful.

      We need you.

      Extinction Rebellion seeks an economy that maximises happiness and minimises harm; that restores soil health and the honourable harvest, taking only what is freely given from the wind, sun and tides.

      In a decarbonised and relocalised system, it embraces frugality for the sake of fairness.

      It seeks to restore a sacred rightness to the world, to everything its season, the beauty of its steady balance.

      It restores the right to dream, relentlessly, gracefully, wildly. As trenchant as it is effervescent, this rebellion beckons the conscience, quickens the pulse and galvanizes the heart.

      For our deepest longings are magnificent: to live a meaningful life, to be in unity with each other and with the life-source, call it the spirit, call it the divine, call it the still small voice, it doesn’t matter what it is called or how it is spelled if it guides us in service to life.

      This vision has a map.

      It is the map of the human heart.

      Believing in unflinching truth, reckless beauty and audacious love, knowing that life is worth more than money and that there is nothing greater, nothing more important, nothing more sacred than protecting the spirit deep within all life.

      This is life in rebellion for life.”

      • Extinction Rebellion seek anarchy. If they truly want to help the planet they need to protest where the highest impacts are. Too easy over here although it’s fair to say they are probably finished; the general public who are inconvenienced by them have had enough. The Police have had enough hence their new powers.
        UK is doing reasonably well with regards to carbon reduction. By the way you really did post a lot of waffle Anaiya – it took me ages to scroll past it ……

        • IYO only Paul. You are also very rude Paul. I posted what others have said. If you object to that, then may i suggest you take it up with them direct. I will keep posting whatever i see fit thanks to your encouragement.

          No, XR does not seek anarchy. Anarchy all ready exists. Anarchy just masquerades as order. Extinction is anarchy. Extinction Rebellion seeks to expose extinction anarchy for what it is. When was the last time you voted to outlaw ecocide. Was ecocide even offered as a choice. How many other accepted lies have not been offered to vote on. That is anarchy. That is not democracy.
          Order is not chaos, and chaos is what we see all around us at present. That is anarchy. Order comes out of chaos. That is what XR is. Order out of chaos.

          By the way you really did post a lot of waffle Paul – I will scroll past it in future……

      • AT

        Unfortunately the ER stuff reads like the ‘we work’ prospectus. Heavy on waffle and short on specifics ( such as what reduction in human population is required to reach the goal?)

        Now … that’s just my opinion, and nothing personal. What you post is available in Waterstones ( to browse through on a rainy day and maybe purchase ), the web and leaflets.

        Re the ages bit above ….

        As most of the worlds population are still in the first age ( believe in and worship a god made up by themselves and also artefacts therefrom) does that link to QE, which is the creation of money without any need for an activity to create it? Ie, are we still in the first age, and will bit coin herald the second age?

        Plus, where is the Information Age?

        How old is ‘old enough to have your vision dimmed’. Is that the age you get to vote?

        And … should that not be …. make ecocide illegal, not make it legal?

        Welcome to DoD

        • H
          Again you must seek the advice of Jay Griffiths on those questions.
          Jay Griffiths said
          Make ecocide law.
          Not make ecocide legal. Quite a different suggestion. Try not to misrepresent what was said to make a spurious point. You appear to have fallen over your own words. Heavy on waffle and short on specifics.
          Again you must seek the advice of Jay Griffiths on that question too.

        • H
          Thankyou for your welcome. This last few years have been enlightening. I see there is much here to do and even more to say.

          Welcome to the future.

      • So when are you off to China AT? I assume you understand why the Northern White Rhino is extinct? The white rhino was doing okay when I was in Kruger recently. Pangolins. Tigers, bears, sea cucumbers, sharks all in trouble due to China and Vietnam’s appetite for mythical medical remedies. Get yourself and fellow ER members over there. The more you get on the plane, the lower your average carbon footprint……although I doubt Ryan Air fly that far.

        • I live here in UK PT, and I don’t fly, by airplane or any other method. Is it my name which you think gives you the right to dictate. I was born here PT and I dont take orders from the likes of you. Maybe you think it does.
          And since as you say, you were in Kruger National Park, what did you do to prevent the extinction of the local endangered wildlife by those you claim are guilty? Or did you participate in trophy hunting tourism?
          There is a black market in endangered animals and it is money that drives the poaching with sub machine guns. The source of that is more to do with poverty and government complicity that feeds off trophy hunting tourism.
          How many endangered species trophies did you hunt while you were in the Kruger National Park?
          Better than attempt to tell others what to do in such a grossly rude manner, maybe you had better look to your own activities and do something about it yourself while you were there. Or do you prefer to bitch about everyone else.
          We all should do what we can where we are now, not leave it to others and bitch about it.
          Or is that too close to the truth.
          There is a quote from the Bible that says:
          2 Kings 20:1 – Set thine own house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.
          Confucius said:
          To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must first put the family in order; to put the family in order; we must first cultivate our personal life; we must first set our hearts right.
          So PT, may I suggest you should be putting your own house in order before seeking to put everyone else’s house in order. I suggest you follow that dictum first before attempting to instruct others in such a rude aggressive manner.

          Scroll, scroll, scroll….

          • I thought that the Kruger National Park was a place designed to preserve wildlife.

            However, there seems to be an ongoing discussion about hunting

            https://africageographic.com/blog/opinion-trophy-hunting-in-the-greater-kruger-versus-broader-conservation-priorities/

            Should it be allowed, should it be rich people doing it for eye watering sums, or locals for their own purposes. Where do the eye watering sums go (into the local community or not ) and who pays for the keepers who battle against poachers from across the border?

            A bit like the uk. Should it be just the rich who blast wildlife off the face of the earth ( rich farmers..range rovers..etc etc ) or locals who just want ‘one for the pot’?

            But Paul T does touch on a point. When looking at a rare species, some people say …’we need to preserve that’, others think ‘I wonder what that tastes like’?

            • I am sure PT is capable of answering your questions H as he is to my questions. Ordered house or not. Rude or….very rude.
              Though do be careful, his scroll roller seems to be in overdrive at least in theory only.
              I understand that local hunting still occurs, but they are driven away by death threats and murder by the poachers and outgunned and driven away by the unspeakable trophy hunters and their handlers. Where those quarter of a million fees for such abominations go is more a worthwhile investigation than being ordered to go to China, the theory being that stopping the trophy hunting at source maybe far more effective than attempting to trophy hunt down the organisers.
              Like ecocide the remedy may be outlawing the practice legally, Speciescide maybe. That would apply to all living creatures including us.
              Otherwise trophy hunters will only point to their murdering licence and laugh in everyones face.

              • AT no hunting in Kruger National Park and poachers are usually shot. There may be some licenced hunting in the private buffer zones. And plenty of white rhinos – did you correct your post? Personally I don’t have any interest in what Confucius said but perhaps his fellow countrymen should follow his guidance? The Vietnamese have a saying
                As well – we eat anything with four legs except a table. Your love and BS is misdirected. You really should get on a plane and learn about how the real world works. Try living in the Middle East, Africa, Far East for a few years in each place and then perhaps you can start preaching to people. With regards to wildlife protection I probably do more in a year than you will do in a lifetime. We don’t need ER there are plenty of people quietly getting on with life and conserving biodiversity. From penguins in the Falkland
                Islands to Rhinos in India to crocodiles in Vietnam to Lutra Lutra in North West England to Hen Harrier in our uplands etc etc And you? Shut down traffic and tubes in London? Wow! You are correct in that I get angry about entities like ER and the people who support them [edited by moderator]

                • Scroll, scroll, scroll….
                  Since you moved to the next page PT maybe i will reply there. I’ll wait for the announcement on fracking first though. There may be a lot more anger resulting from that and i wouldnt like to “excite” that. You see i’m picking up the lingo all ready.

  9. Or Wendy Cope:

    “They pollute the world, they kill and eat animals.
    Everywhere there is blood and the stench of death.
    Human beings make war and hate each other.
    They do not understand their young, they reject their ideals.
    They make them come home early from the disco,
    They are doomed.”

    Like there is a surplus of news, real and fake, to suit all tastes, poets can provide most with what they like or they find exciting.

    They have also been fairly active glorifying slaughter over hundreds of years. So, certainly not a uniquely virtuous bunch.

    • Extinction Rebellion Creative Hub

      Loss
      by Sarah Coakley

      We know what it means to lose.

      We lost the Hokkaido wolf
      Somewhere amongst the spruce and powdered snow
      Too inconvenient to withstand poison.

      We lost the the Caspian tiger
      Burning too brightly amongst the fertile reedbeds
      Which were better used to grow cotton.

      We lost the golden toad
      That once glittered in the Costa Rica sunlight
      That got hotter every year.

      We lost the Japanese river otter
      Missing, presumed dead,
      Disappeared into the polluted depths.

      We lost the white rhinoceros
      Their horns too beautiful, too majestic
      For their own heads.

      We are losing the vaquita
      Binding them to their fate in nets
      Designed for the next seafood stew.

      We are losing the mountain gorillas
      That were too shy, too gentle
      To fight back for their homes.

      We are losing the pangolins
      Because their armour couldn’t protect them
      From trafficking and medicine.

      We are losing the monarch butterflies
      For their burning beauty
      Is no match for our burning planet.

      We are losing the bees
      Along with the wildflowers
      That were too beautiful and too fruitless to live.

      Yet, before all this
      We lost something else
      Something fundamental

      Before all this
      We lost ourselves
      Misplaced amongst myths of manifest destiny

      At the moment
      ‘us’ became ‘human’
      And ‘we’ became ‘I’

      We lost ourselves
      And we know what it means to lose.
      But that doesn’t mean we can’t be found.

      It’s not too late.

      Don’t let it be too late.

      © Sarah Coakley 2019

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